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SECNAV to Implement Sweeping Changes

nittany03

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Spekkio said:
Define 'in shape.' Is he a big guy able to push around other big guys for a few seconds with 40 seconds rest inbetween and several minute breaks when the defense is on the field? Yes.

Is he probably over the Navy's line in the sand of 22% bodyfat? Also yes.

I'm not saying everyone needs to be built like Arnold, but there's a lot of fat to be put on in 10" of waistline for a 6'2" man.
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Totally agree. But what are we looking for in our physical fitness program? Arbitrary numbers or functional ability to get the job done? And I say that as a common sinner; I'm a small-framed guy who would need to hit the weight room a whole lot more to be useful in a shipboard DC scenario. As it is, I'm not flying a 7.5G capable aircraft. So my primary concern right now is keeping cardio up, and the encroaching old man beer gut in check, so I don't look like a total bag of ass in uniform. But if I needed someone to haul my injured ass up the ladderwell, I'd pick the lineman with the gut over someone with a 39.999999 inch waistline if I knew the guy could haul my ass out of there.

There is some merit to the idea that if you can ace the rest of the PRT, or at least do very well, your body fat measurement shouldn't tank you. But if you're a fatbody who is totally out of shape, here's the door.

Edit:
Spekkio said:
Doesn't this require a change in statute?
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Yes. SECNAV said in his speech that this was a legislative proposal they'd have to run by Congress. I believe the goal was 2017.
 
Spekkio

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
nittany03 said:
Totally agree. But what are we looking for in our physical fitness program? Arbitrary numbers or functional ability to get the job done?
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I think we cross paths on this as I edited my previous post...

from the PRT instruction:
It has become increasingly important for all Navy personnel to maintain a minimum prescribed level of physical fitness necessary for world-wide deployment, whenever or wherever needed. Per reference (b), the Navy utilizes a holistic approach to overall wellness via exercise, nutrition, weight control, tobacco cessation, prevention of alcohol abuse, and health and wellness education. While all of these factors contribute to overall wellness, the primary focus of this instruction is to define the policies and requirements for both maintaining and assessing Navy physical fitness.
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The goal seems very clear to me: establish a minimum standard of fitness to make sure that sailors are healthy enough to be ready to be deployed. It's not about being able to perform the tasks of your job; it's about not having to miss deployment because you have bad knees or a heart condition.

I realize that bodybuilding is all the rage, but putting on large amounts of extra mass (large meaning to the point that the 39" waist failure cutoff would matter to you) is bad for your heart and joints. That's not the kind of 'fitness' the Navy is looking for, and it's not like the fitness standards are a secret. I would submit that you don't need a lineman to carry you if you keep your bodyweight in check. Besides, in my neck of the woods a lineman with a 39.9" waist won't be able to fit up the ladderwell while wearing FFEs, let alone fit up it while holding me.

I will also say this from experience: That D1 OG is going to suck down an FFE tank in no time because his cardio sucks, making him far less effective overall in a fire than the off-chance he happens to stumble upon a downed sailor in the pitch black darkness when the smoke is blinding his incandescent DC lamps. Nothing like rotating out fire teams on 45 min tanks in 25 minutes.

The problem with the BCA standards isn't that it's necessarily arbitrary, it's that it's based on outdated information and uses inaccurate methods of measurement.
 
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Recovering LSO

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
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Contributor
Yawn..... Let me know when the NEX stops selling Monster and creatine.


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Also, to his point about preparing healthier food at galleys...Why the hell does that need to have a one year "pilot test program"? Have we become so stupid that we need a year to test whether or not carrots, green beans, and chicken are healthier for us than the "tan food bar" consisting of corndogs, chicken strips, and french fries. Eating right has a lot more to do with what is not available to you than what is; if "we" are serious about this, it's pretty easy to take the draconian step of removing a lot of unhealthy choices from the NEX shelves as well as the galley lines.

Negativity and sarcasm aside, there are some really good ideas in this plan... For example, a Navy tracksuit that I can put my PRT merit badges on....


pimp.jpg
 
Randy Daytona

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
Spekkio said:
Define 'in shape.' Is he a big guy able to push around other big guys for a few seconds with 40 seconds rest inbetween and several minute breaks when the defense is on the field? Yes.

Will he ever run fast enough to catch a CB who catches an interception? Hell no.

I'm not saying everyone needs to be built like Arnold, but there's a lot of fat to be put on in 10" of waistline for a 6'2" man.
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Speed is great, until it is not.

 
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MGoBrew11

MGoBrew11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Farva01 said:
I am surprised the PFA stuff is getting more discussion right now. The dissolving of year groups is a major shift that is going to change career timing decisions, career paths, screen boards, etc. Hell, it might even allow that mythical 20 year LT who does nothing but fly...
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Yeah, PRT changes are meh. Who really cares? Most of us will be able to pass whatever physical test is in place. The current system is a joke and the next system will also be a joke. Changes to the promotion system and opening all rates (SPECWAR!?) to females? Those are much more important changes.
 
Uncle Fester

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
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Ditching YGs is huge. We had a full epic thread devoted to how fucked up the promotion/screen system is, and that nothing would ever change. SECNAV just threw a frag in the room. I think it at least will shake things up, and the one thing everyone seems to agree on is that the system was due for a good shaking. Interesting to see how it'll pan out.

Farva01 said:
...Hell, it might even allow that mythical 20 year LT who does nothing but fly...
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I'm sure the staff snuffies in Millington who are turning the Big Idea into reality are thinking about that guy and how to prevent it. There has to be some kind of up-or-out turnover to make room for new accessions, and I'm sure it'll get written into policy. Maybe a maximum time-in-grade rule or something.

I'm curious what will put you in the running for promotion in this new system, since without YGs you can't really do AZ/IZ/BZ. Each EP you get earns you points and when you get so many points you're put in the Tank?
 
Recovering LSO

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
But for those who are applauding the abandonment of year groups - I have to ask, do you think it's going to do much to address the oh-so dreaded "golden path?" I see the opportunity to promote early based on merit as a very good thing. The reality is that "early promote" doesn't mean "early promote" on a FITREP and below zone promotions, at least for aviators, are like unicorns. BUT... when a guy's record is getting looked at for, let's say, O-4 for example there are going to be metrics and precepts that the board uses to determine "the best and most fully qualified" right? Does anyone think that competitive breakouts in big summary groups (gasp.... the path....) are going to no longer be valued? The only difference I see now is that guys will be eligible for earlier promotion if they've done well in those jobs.

I'm not suggesting that the YG system shouldn't have been changed, but I wonder how much things are really going to change because of it.

The increase in grad school opportunities looks very intriguing - let's hope that the JO mentioned in the speech is the rule and not the exception when it comes to who is benefitting from these spots. The fortune 500 fellowships also look like great opportunities. Both are very good things for a number of reason, not least of which because they put AD dudes in civilian settings where hopefully each will learn from the other . It will be interesting to see how the fellowships are divided up. I suspect many/most will go to due-course post command O-5s (the path) as space fillers prior to O-6/MAJCOM.
 
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