Prowler crashes in Eastern Washington, Aviators Feared Dead

[Renegade One]

Wasn't sure where to post this question, so I thought I'd try it here:

In a hypothetical scenario (may be based on true events…) wherein an east coast pilot is sent to a west coast training site/environment and provided with a west-coast "loaner" squadron aircraft…who would initially "own" the initial reporting/investigative roles in the unfortunate event that there should be a mishap? Aircraft custodian? Pilot's squadron? Parent "training site/environment"?

Serious question…in a serious time.

 

[lowflier03]

Did those guys just ride the load into the ground?

The end of the article has the actual SIR with identifying info redacted, as well as a link to the video the omani's filmed of the mishap.
Short version based on the FOIA SIR, they had transitioned to forward flight, helo started spinning, PAC tried to jettison the load and it didn't work. PNAC tried to come on the controls to assist with the spin instead of hitting the emergency jettison. Tail rotor hit the cliffside and the entire aircraft spun and flipped upside down, landing on top of the load. Immediate massive fire, etc...

 

[lowflier03]

Wasn't sure where to post this question, so I thought I'd try it here:

In a hypothetical scenario (may be based on true events…) wherein an east coast pilot is sent to a west coast training site/environment and provided with a west-coast "loaner" squadron aircraft…who would initially "own" the initial reporting/investigative roles in the unfortunate event that there should be a mishap? Aircraft custodian? Pilot's squadron? Parent "training site/environment"?

Serious question…in a serious time.

Having personal experience in a somewhat similar situation.

The parent "training site/environment" will begin (and usually finish out) the investigation. As a hypothetical for something at say a Fallon WTI school. The specific school (Nx department) will carry out the SIR and begin the FNAEB. From there it goes to the Admiral in Fallon, and from there direct to the Airboss. If its on a coast, then it would go through the respective CDRE before Airboss.

 

[Pags]

Having personal experience in a somewhat similar situation.

The parent "training site/environment" will begin (and usually finish out) the investigation. As a hypothetical for something at say a Fallon WTI school. The specific school (Nx department) will carry out the SIR and begin the FNAEB. From there it goes to the Admiral in Fallon, and from there direct to the Airboss. If its on a coast, then it would go through the respective CDRE before Airboss.

Can be modified by any agreements that may be in place. At VX-1 we had agreements with VX-20 and HX-21 that allowed us to share test assets. In that case the MOA said that the signing squadron owned the mishap.

 

[CommodoreMid]

Can be modified by any agreements that may be in place. At VX-1 we had agreements with VX-20 and HX-21 that allowed us to share test assets. In that case the MOA said that the signing squadron owned the mishap.

Interesting, and at the end of the day I always thought this made more sense than the custodian squadron owning the mishap investigation. Never understood why the squadron who put the event on the flight schedule didn't own the investigation, considering they would own the initial OPREP stuff, etc. I get the overall maintenance piece, shutting down OOMA, etc, but parceling out these pieces seems weird to me. Granted, I'm not an ASO type, so if anyone has insight on that I'm all ears.

 

[xj220]

If you look at the 3750 (I don't remember the exact verbology) but it says at least one squadron shall have the flight on it's schedule for mishap reporting purposes. It seems most squadrons will have an agreement between them that whoever has the flight on their schedule will handle the mishap reporting. In VP land where we share the planes all the time, we definitely did that. That being said, never assume that exists because if say someone where to tow a piece of GSE into your aircraft while another squadron is using it, it may still be your responsibility.

 

[e6bflyer]

We had a sister squadron mishap with one of our jets. They did the investigation and got "credit" for the mishap. We assisted when needed.

 

[CommodoreMid]

If you look at the 3750 (I don't remember the exact verbology) but it says at least one squadron shall have the flight on it's schedule for mishap reporting purposes. It seems most squadrons will have an agreement between them that whoever has the flight on their schedule will handle the mishap reporting. In VP land where we share the planes all the time, we definitely did that. That being said, never assume that exists because if say someone where to tow a piece of GSE into your aircraft while another squadron is using it, it may still be your responsibility.

I knew for the mishap reporting purposes, but I always figured if you broke it, you should buy the investigation. If VP-XX borrows VP-YY's plane and crashes it, VP-XX's SDO is running around asses and elbows getting the OPREP out, notifying everyone and their mother, getting CACO stuff started, ensuring NATOPS jackets and all that are secured, etc, but VP-YY is stuck with the JAGMAN afterwards.

 

[Gatordev]

As I recall, there's also a blurb in the 3750 about who is senior buys the mishap. I don't know if that counts for reporting "mishap-free hours," but if VP-xx taxis into VP-yy's aircraft, and VP-xx is completely at fault, if VP-yy's CO is senior, they buy the mishap. Obviously bodies would be provided to assist, but administratively speaking, that's what's supposed to happen if there isn't any SOP already.

 

[xj220]

As I recall, there's also a blurb in the 3750 about who is senior buys the mishap. I don't know if that counts for reporting "mishap-free hours," but if VP-xx taxis into VP-yy's aircraft, and VP-xx is completely at fault, if VP-yy's CO is senior, they buy the mishap. Obviously bodies would be provided to assist, but administratively speaking, that's what's supposed to happen if there isn't any SOP already.

Yep, that is correct and I was about to post on that. That's for a single mishap involving several aircraft from different squadrons. An example that was used was an aircraft landing on the carrier and it going awry and hitting another aircraft from a different squadron and debris flying and hitting a third aircraft from yet another squadron. As you said, the senior CO would be responsible for the investigation, regardless of causal factors or damage.

 

[Renegade One]

What a wonderful world we live in…