PEP tour in Germany—Worth a shot, or just a pipe dream?

[AllYourBass]

Hey all,

I'm a long way away from this question having any relevance to my life, seeing as I just completed the Stage 1 IFS Exam this morning. I'm extremely open-minded in terms of my naval aviation career. Right now, my only goal is passing IFS, and then API, and then Primary I don't even particularly care what I fly because I don't think I have enough knowledge to even make that choice yet.

However, I've been teaching myself German for a couple years and I'm extremely enamored with the language. I'd also love the opportunity to attend the DLI and have the chance to apply it practically in Germany. In the modern naval aviation climate—(which won't even necessarily be my climate once I make it to that point)—can somebody set their sights on a Personnel Exchange Program tour in a particular country and make that happen, or is this just another tiny moving target that relies on timing and luck? This question is asked with a healthy and respectful understanding of "Don't wish for something or the Navy will give you something else to poop on your dreams."

 

[zippy]

Hey all,

I'm a long way away from this question having any relevance to my life, seeing as I just completed the Stage 1 IFS Exam this morning. I'm extremely open-minded in terms of my naval aviation career. Right now, my only goal is passing IFS, and then API, and then Primary I don't even particularly care what I fly because I don't think I have enough knowledge to even make that choice yet.

However, I've been teaching myself German for a couple years and I'm extremely enamored with the language. I'd also love the opportunity to attend the DLI and have the chance to apply it practically in Germany. In the modern naval aviation climate—(which won't even necessarily be my climate once I make it to that point)—can somebody set their sights on a Personnel Exchange Program tour in a particular country and make that happen, or is this just another tiny moving target that relies on timing and luck? This question is asked with a healthy and respectful understanding of "Don't wish for something or the Navy will give you something else to poop on your dreams."

Small target. Luck and timing (Countries and programs change with time as well). There are Joint jobs currently that could take you to Germany though, and other jobs that'll get you to Europe.

 

[xj220]

Like anything, always put in for what you want and take what you get. Have a back up plan, and a back up to your back up.

 

[xj220]

I know several pilots who have done PEP and they all loved it. I knew a P-3 guys who were PEP Canada and Australia and a Hornet guy who was in France. When it comes to picking orders, you'll let your XO know and he'll start digging around. Our XO offered another guy in our squadron Canada in Greenwood but that was all that was available and he declined.

 

[scoober78]

You have a higher percentage chance of being an Olmstead Scholar than you do of getting a PEP slot. Additionally, what PEP locations you can go to are based on what community you end up in, so unless you can predict the future...

Seriously though, Olmstead is a great deal...info here.
http://www.olmstedfoundation.org/olmsted/web/index.cfm?view=scholarsProgram/vwMain&entID=11

 

[BusyBee604]

I'm a long way away from this question having any relevance to my life, seeing as I just completed the Stage 1 IFS Exam this morning.

I's fine that you plan tentatively long range, but keep your eye closely on the short range steps ahead, to enable you to fulfill long range goals.

I'm extremely open-minded in terms of my naval aviation career. Right now, my only goal is passing IFS, and then API, and then Primary I don't even particularly care what I fly because I don't think I have enough knowledge to even make that choice yet.

Excellent attitude. You will attain a preference for a particular community, as you proceed through the primary stage. You can pick up a lot of info on the different aircraft types, by querying your IPs, as they will have come from all communities.

However, I've been teaching myself German for a couple years and I'm extremely enamored with the language. I'd also love the opportunity to attend the DLI and have the chance to apply it practically in Germany. In the modern naval aviation climate—(which won't even necessarily be my climate once I make it to that point)—can somebody set their sights on a Personnel Exchange Program tour in a particular country and make that happen, or is this just another tiny moving target that relies on timing and luck? This question is asked with a healthy and respectful understanding of "Don't wish for something or the Navy will give you something else to poop on your dreams."

It is a 'moving target', and as always, "needs of the Navy" rule. Not designed to 'poop' on anyone's dreams, just to fill required needs with qualified Officers.
BzB

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

Words words words

I was kicking around that idea a bit myself. I imagine it'd be pretty friggin' sweet to go fly in Ireland or Australia. My only reticence with PEP is that it's a non-competitive tour, which generally hurts advancement opportunities. I've heard anecdotally that it's not always a "career-killer," and that you can have the CO put some comments on your eval to give you a "soft breakout," but to my understanding, it's usually not as career-friendly as a VT/FRS tour.
Of course, for those who are planning on getting out after their Wings+8 is up, it's moot. Otherwise, I would imagine that it'd be more advisable to do it as a second shore tour, in order to give you a better chance at getting the hard breakouts you need for the promotion boards.
All that said, clearly I'm not purporting to be an expert on the subject. Technically, you're further along the pipeline than I am at the moment (I might catch up though, depending on how long IFS takes; I just handed in my upchit, and I'm a validator), so if any AW'ers could confirm/deny/elaborate on anything I just said, I'd be eternally grateful.

 

[ea6bflyr]

Getting selected for the PEP tour is one thing, but understanding the ramifications of a PEP tour are another.

If you plan on making the Navy a career, then you absolutely must have a breakout FITREP during your JO tour (Ranked competitive EP - #1/#2). If you go to a PEP tour with something less than an EP, then your chances of staying a 13XX and promoting start to diminish.

Bottom line is when you get to your first sea tour as a JO, do your best and be the best and your oppotunities will follow.

 

[AllYourBass]

Genie, my third and final wish... Resurrect this thread from the dead!

So, when I wrote this post, I was looking forward to IFS. Now I've got a few months left in the Romeo FRS before Japan. Is there a good resource to determine which countries exchange tours would be possible with based on platform? As with my original post, it's still very far in the future, but I'm just curious about which exchange opportunities could lie ahead (and aware they could change long before I get there).

 

[SynixMan]

So, when I wrote this post, I was looking forward to IFS. Now I've got a few months left in the Romeo FRS before Japan. Is there a good resource to determine which countries exchange tours would be possible with based on platform? As with my original post, it's still very far in the future, but I'm just curious about which exchange opportunities could lie ahead (and aware they could change long before I get there).

I don't believe they're posted anywhere officially anymore. When you get to your fleet squadron, your XO can ask the detailer for the list of upcoming PEP tours (they should be listed with a fill date to line up with your PRD), and can word the request so as to hide you from the detailer.

As others have said, be advised, this is straying from the "Golden Narrative" of desire FRS/WTI/Production for shore tour, which some front offices will be supportive of, and others will be punitive. Also, asking this the first week in the squadron kind of sends the wrong message of where your head is at. I get it, it's fun to look at opportunities (and I'm doing the same WRT Grad School at the moment), but you need to establish yourself a bit before you'll be given the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Flash]

I don't believe they're posted anywhere officially anymore. When you get to your fleet squadron, your XO can ask the detailer for the list of upcoming PEP tours (they should be listed with a fill date to line up with your PRD), and can word the request so as to hide you from the detailer..

There are so few of them though that your 'community' PEP tours should be well known, they certainly were in Prowlers and P-3's.

 

[AllYourBass]

Also, asking this the first week in the squadron kind of sends the wrong message of where your head is at. I get it, it's fun to look at opportunities (and I'm doing the same WRT Grad School at the moment), but you need to establish yourself a bit before you'll be given the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for the info. I don't broadcast my curiosities or intentions in my squadrons. I do like to know as much as I can before I have to ask questions about anything...that is what AirWarriors is for

 

[Brett327]

Also, ask yourself what you're really wanting to get out of the experience. If you're interested in operating hardware with an allied foreign military, then PEP may scratch that itch. Alternately, if you're just looking to do another overseas tour somewhere interesting and non standard, then there may be other options for you with significantly less risk to your career health. Staff tours at COCOMs or numbered fleets abroad, JPME at foreign war colleges, and even some embassy gigs may be available to you down the road. Most of these would be at the O4 mark, but there are some cool overseas staff jobs available to first shore tour LTs.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Also, ask yourself what you're really wanting to get out of the experience. If you're interested in operating hardware with an allied foreign military, then PEP may scratch that itch. Alternately, if you're just looking to do another overseas tour somewhere interesting and non standard, then there may be other options for you with significantly less risk to your career health. Staff tours at COCOMs or numbered fleets abroad, JPME at foreign war colleges, and even some embassy gigs may be available to you down the road. Most of these would be at the O4 mark, but there are some cool overseas staff jobs available to first shore tour LTs.

Completely agree with Brett. I did my staff tours in Europe - fantastic time. While over there, I knew an EA-6B NFO turned FAO who went to the German Navy staff college - he eventually made admiral (glad to see some good guys make flag...) Lot of options out there which seem to open up once you get your gold oak leaf.

The other thing to think about is how it affects your career. I don't know about a PEP tour, but a joint staff tour is a big check in the box.

 

[Gatordev]

I don't broadcast my curiosities or intentions in my squadrons.

Personally, I think PEP is pretty cool. I also have already quit once, so don't subscribe to the various forces that tend to create institutional inertia. So understand I'm offering you this as advice and not as any kind of negative intention for you to follow something that interests you...

Be careful. Don't assume what's here on AW is anonymous. Should you pay for questions you ask here? I'd argue absolutely NOT! But people can figure out who you are pretty quick (I already know you're heading to one of two squadrons and know you're close to finishing the ATO phase). And I'll be honest, I probably would have flown a RAG syllabus event with you if I hadn't been needed elsewhere (and then went med down...sad face) and could figure out who you are (by name) fairly easy.

So treat your career like the Cold War. Know your enemy is listening, but just be cognizant of what you let them hear.