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TOP GUN Misunderstood

Gentlemen, Excellent discussion. All of it...very interesting. I actually was buddied up with a F-18 pilot in SERE school. His call sign was "Ice Man". He was a blonde hair dude, who really looked like Val Kilmer. He was also an Academy dude. Really Frat Boyish.
 
Renegade One said:
Spare me the diatribe about "but it's different now!". It's always been different. There was a time when choker whites or SDB/Ks were required in the O'Clubs after 1800...
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While it may have been different back "then," the "different" now includes no-tolerance DUI policies, both from local LE as well as Big Blue (and Green). That doesn't mean guys can't put a plan together and have fun at the club on base, but one step across the line, and it's a dream/career killer. Despite all the issues that were around in the previous generations of Naval Aviators, a single DUI didn't carry (or even a DWI "I'll follow you home" hook-up) didn't carry anywhere near the weight that it does now.
 
Justin Luke Nole said:
Gentlemen, Excellent discussion. All of it...very interesting. I actually was buddied up with a F-18 pilot in SERE school. His call sign was "Ice Man". He was a blonde hair dude, who really looked like Val Kilmer. He was also an Academy dude. Really Frat Boyish.
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Cool+Story+Bro+3.jpg
 
Fallonflyr said:
The best place to see an O Club is in a museum in P Cola...that is sad.
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Agreed. The Navy and MWR's politics and policies have literally killed the O'Club. When Norfolk's Oclub ("largest naval station in the world" or whatever they call it), is open two hours a day and is outdone by the base galley then we have a problem. Pcola's O'club was doing pretty well last time I was there, but it's merely a glimmer of what they should all be like.
 
Renegade One said:
Uh…it ain't an O'Club…it's a "museum". Don't confuse the two.

It's today's folks' job to make an O'Club. Doesn't need to be "old school"…just needs to be a place where you actually wanna go and mingle with your peers and leaders…however you define that. If y'all would rather go to Hooters or The Tilted Kilt…well, then, that's what you want, I guess. You will never have anything on base other than an "All Hands Catering Venue" to call your own. Nice buffet lunches, tho...

Spare me the diatribe about "but it's different now!". It's always been different. There was a time when choker whites or SDB/Ks were required in the O'Clubs after 1800...
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That was my point.
 
C420sailor said:
Atsugi O'Club is now the 'Atsugi Convention Center'---I shit you not.
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They have to 'be seen' as doing SOMETHING about the horrible alcohol problem in service clubs... like you can't get near as inebriated in a Convention Center, as in an O'Club..aaarrgh! Who dreams up these prevention programs? RIP morale.:(
BzB
 
I guess the "training facilities" no longer exist. i.e. the ACRAC (Aviation Cadet Recreation and Athletic Club) at P'cola, the cadet club bar in the barracks at Saufley, and the cadet club next to the wave cave at Whiting. The MARCADs called em slop-shoots.
 
blackbart22 said:
I guess the "training facilities" no longer exist. i.e. the ACRAC (Aviation Cadet Recreation and Athletic Club) at P'cola
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It was still there when I went through in 86/87 but, of course, it was the AOC club by then.

The decline for my generation (87-07) was post Tailhook and the arrival of full blown PC and its associated programs.Even up at sleepy NUW the base got very aggressive with DWI enforcement to the point that they kept moving traffic cones at the gate closer and closer together and if you touched one you got stopped. Of course, “Psycho" kept directing his pregnant wife to flatten them every Friday evening in his F250 on the way out since she wasn't drinking. It gave the SP something to do and the rest of us slipped by while they were stopped. :D In time we all just started going to the Brown Lantern (which was an undiscovered biker bar then) or the Anacortes Brewpub (Paul, the brewmaster was a former ECMO and a sim instructor) for the Anacortes crowd or the South crowd went to Toby’s or to the brewery that Kevin Lock (former ECMO) had opened in Coupeville after you had maybe one beer at the club. It just wasn’t worth the danger to be at the club and try and get off base.

The club at Whidbey went up and down over time and finally was just open Friday evening and for lunch during the week. They did OK and the Friday crowd was pretty good at least up through 95 when I PCS’ed. The influx of a bunch of P-3’s helped with the population after the A-6’s went away.

I can’t imagine trying to build a ready room culture these days without those club debriefs so good on you guys that are working hard to keep the culture alive.
 
Since the OP asked about inconsistencies, then here are a few.
Navy squadrons don't send paired pilot and WSO through TOPGUN. If there is a pilot and WSO from the same squadron that get selected, then they might get to go through the class together, but this is extremely rare.
XO / COs might fly during the class, but that isn't who I would be worried about. The TOPGUN IP who just went through their BFM syllabus on the other hand, that's another story.
Dudes fail out on a pretty regular basis;. Maybe things actually are different than they used to be.
Like has been mentioned, this isn't the Navy it was 20 / 10 / or even 5 years ago.
 
Gatordev said:
While it may have been different back "then," the "different" now includes no-tolerance DUI policies, both from local LE as well as Big Blue (and Green). That doesn't mean guys can't put a plan together and have fun at the club on base, but one step across the line, and it's a dream/career killer. Despite all the issues that were around in the previous generations of Naval Aviators, a single DUI didn't carry (or even a DWI "I'll follow you home" hook-up) didn't carry anywhere near the weight that it does now.
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Yeah, all true…I understand that part.
 
pilot_man said:
Navy squadrons don't send paired pilot and WSO through TOPGUN. If there is a pilot and WSO from the same squadron that get selected, then they might get to go through the class together, but this is extremely rare.
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That's interesting to know. By the way, how does the Navy select dudes to go to NFWS? In the Corps, squadrons will nominate a pilot (and WSO if it's a D squadron) and unless the MAG disagrees, he/she/they will get worked up by their squadron and go. Generally, Marine F/A-18D squadrons will send both a pilot & a WSO to NFWS paired together. Same with our WTI. Considering squadrons are usually tagged with sending two jets & a maintenance crew, it makes sense to get a crew through the class. I have seen pilots and WSO's from different D squadron's paired & worked up together as well.

Something I've heard discussed but I've never really gave much thought ... what are the levels of training for Navy Hornet/SH guys... Level 1/2/3/4? We just call it working up for section lead/division lead/mission commander, etc.
 
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