Interesting report here:
http://www.military.com/news/articl...et-secret-care-to-save-career.html?ESRC=eb.nl
Who knew?!?
http://www.military.com/news/articl...et-secret-care-to-save-career.html?ESRC=eb.nl
Who knew?!?
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Helo Pilots vs Bad Backs Account Vibration
- Thread starter rondebmar
- Start date
Every helo driver.
Everyone I know who has more than 300hrs complains about back issues from time to time. The older you get and the more hours you have the more frequent the complaints. I've seen plenty of guys laid out by sciatic nerve issues.
Son...I resent the ridicule implied in your reply to my post.
FWIW, the only chopper pilots I ever had the opportunity to associate with during my active duty time (1958-1968) were the few assigned to "plane guard" duty in small detachments assigned to the CVA's I cruised on...and even though quite friendly with a few of them, I was never previously aware of that phenomenon mentioned in my post.
Any helo pilot who's ever flown in body armor or has "years" flying helos can tell you that this is old news. The article even mentions that this is an old problem.
The video clip was my way of commenting that the military is finally starting to acknowledge that there is a problem. IMO it's coming to light because we now have many more pilots with many more hours who are hitting up the VA with disability claims for bad backs and DOD is starting to have to open the wallet to address the issue.
DOD is now realizing that there is a problem. If they walked into any helo squadron since we started flying in body armor (1960's) they could have learned the exact same thing.
But, if you went to the flight doc with a bad back, you'd be grounded. Since you may not be able to egress the aircraft with a bad back, the docs won't let you fly.
The position you usually take while on the controls is slightly hunched forward, so you weight is borne by your lower back. Add to this the weight of body armor, which many helo crews will only fly with the front plate which only makes the situation worse and NVG's (5 pounds of weight at the end of the moment arm that is your upper body) and it's obvious to see there is an ergonomic issue wit the cockpit of helicopters.
So, in the clip, Jim Carrey is DOD finally discovering something that has been common knowledge for 40+ years.
My uncle is a helo guy and he was just talking about how he has had lower back pain for a while and had a waiver for it. He just recently got his yearly flight physical at an Air Force led flight medicine at the Pentagon. In one of the rooms he said he saw a bunch of needles and a poster of an acupuncture map on the wall and proceeded to make jokes about it. Ended up agreeing to getting one for the hell of it since he had nothing to lose and said he was shocked at the results. He got up and walked around with no pain for the first time and was in disbelief, and I guess that's why the docs there call it the "walk of disbelief" for a reason.
The topic was brought up at the NHA symposium and there were demo's of some new seats for both pilots and aircrew. The pilots seats offered a tilting feature and more padding. And of course the Army is already fielding them... I feel worse for our aircrew in the 60S. Their seats are straight up torture devices and they fly twice as much as the pilots.
I have been lucky - and haven't had any issues. One thing that helps with the body armor is to make sure you wear the back plate to even out the load. Otherwise, all of the stuff hanging on the vest, plus the plate will aggravate the forward slouch. When you add the back plate - you can remove the back cushion so you don't crowd the cyclic.
Right, but let's face it - there are only three possible outcomes from this study:
1. Quite Possible: We will be subjected to years (decades) of R&D for new ergonomic seats, and with the expected budget cuts, this program will be put on the back burner. The bean counters will tell us that we already have shiny new aircraft that came with seats, so quit our bitchin'.
2. Very Possible: NAVAIR will field an "interim" seat in all T/M/S...likely worse than what we have now...and the "interim" seat will become permanent, and will follow each aircraft to the boneyard in 50 years.
3. Most Likely: DoD/DoN will mandate some sort of *ahem* 'preventative' treatment/monitoring program for all helo drivers, which we'll all be involuntarily signed up for. This program will have us consult with the Flight Sturgeon at our annual physicals, where he'll advise us of the possible long-term effects of helo driving, suggest some sort of stretching regimen, and make the appropriate entries in our medical records. These records, of course, will make it all but impossible to get long-term treatment, VA benefits, etc., since (after all) we were screened annually for back pain prevention.
The 60S is supposed to be getting new gunners seats.
I'm here to tell you that Active Vibration Control System (AVCS) is the bomb! After a 2 hour flight in a 60 B/A/L my back was beginning to hurt. With the AVCS in the 60M, 4 hours doesn't bother me. And that is WITH body armor! The seats are OK in the 60M. They have inflatable bladders. Half of the bottom bladders are leaking, so only the padding provides cushioning for your butt.
With our Air Warrior vests, we have no back plate. Maybe it is because we have the sliding armor side panels. I have tried using no back cushion, but without a properly formed cushion for my lower back, I can hardly walk after getting off one mission. I keep the back cushion in with its lumbar support and feel fine.
With our Air Warrior vests, we have no back plate. Maybe it is because we have the sliding armor side panels. I have tried using no back cushion, but without a properly formed cushion for my lower back, I can hardly walk after getting off one mission. I keep the back cushion in with its lumbar support and feel fine.
Not just confined to rotor heads; almost anyone who flys piston engined machines will get some sort of vibration transfer.
For those of you flying helos now, make note of this article and google others; they are out there. Then take those articles to the VA upon retirement/discharge and make your case for a combat (or hazardous training) related injury. It does make a difference.
For those of you flying helos now, make note of this article and google others; they are out there. Then take those articles to the VA upon retirement/discharge and make your case for a combat (or hazardous training) related injury. It does make a difference.