And 99% of all those 'legit' guys, when asked, will say something like, "I didn't do anything heroic -- I was just doin' my job. The REAL heroes are....".
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MEDALS?? We don't NEED no STEEEENKIN' badges !!! *split thread*
- Thread starter MAKE VAPES
- Start date
And 99% of all those 'legit' guys, when asked, will say something like, "I didn't do anything heroic -- I was just doin' my job. The REAL heroes are....".
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
True that.
I should have also included an estimate of how many guys did amazing things and got nothing at all.
Probably 10-1 across the board.
I take a lot more pride in the (non-GO/FO) command coins I was presented than the ribbons I came back with from my IA - maybe with the exception of the Afghan Campaign Medal. Something about a one-on-one thank you and a hearty handshake that seems much more genuine and gratifying than an EOT award.
....
BTW, a Unit award (ribbon) of elevated status is the Presidential Unit Citation (PUC) awarded to us (USS MIDWAY/CVW-5, including catmando) for cruise '72 (Op LineBacker II), which ended the air war, bringing our POWs home)!irate_12
BzB :sleep_125
The PUC Award...... and some of the Cost:
Attachments
Your advice?.....SIGH......sorry, not funny
Dude, pardone moi, but that is the DUMBEST post I've seen on AW in my 2+ YEARS HERE. YOU PULLED THOSE "STATISTICS" OUT OF YOUR ASS! Credibility GONE. Quit digging, you're in over your head.
'nuff said. PM me if "you still don't get it". :snorkel_1
BzB, shaking head!
How you feel about your awards, is your business. How you feel about other's awards, is partly their business also. One should be VERY careful when criticizing other's awards. Dangerous territory! This applies to all on this thread.
BzB
Nice shot Hacker, but it was a dud. iT'S NOT A JOKING MATTER, OR MAYBE IT IS IN THE USAF?
BzB out
Donnely, Bixel, McCormick, Clark ... RIP, Brothers.
You lost your youth, your loved ones, your future, your lives. We all miss you ...
So, here are two scenarios wrt medals, bluff is it all depends on who is in charge at the time of the possible medal deserving action.
Scenario number one. A Navy Rescue Swimmer performs an in water rescue of a sailor who fell overboard in the Persian Gulf at night in a high sea state. It was a difficult rescue with high winds and a high sea state. Swimmer did what he was trained to do. Worthy of a medal?
Scenario number two. A hoist operator is credited with saving the lives of two swimmers while conducting SAR jumps in San Diego Bay. Helo had an engine emergency while hoisting two swimmers from the bay and had to depart the hover. Hoist operator recovered swimmers before the helo ditched and although he was scared for his life, he basically did what he was trained to do. Worthy of a medal?
In one of these scenarios the crew was awarded medals, the other not. Different Skippers.
Scenario number one. A Navy Rescue Swimmer performs an in water rescue of a sailor who fell overboard in the Persian Gulf at night in a high sea state. It was a difficult rescue with high winds and a high sea state. Swimmer did what he was trained to do. Worthy of a medal?
Scenario number two. A hoist operator is credited with saving the lives of two swimmers while conducting SAR jumps in San Diego Bay. Helo had an engine emergency while hoisting two swimmers from the bay and had to depart the hover. Hoist operator recovered swimmers before the helo ditched and although he was scared for his life, he basically did what he was trained to do. Worthy of a medal?
In one of these scenarios the crew was awarded medals, the other not. Different Skippers.
I absolutely understand that you don't know anything about me or my deployment cycle. Few in the Navy, much less the Marine Corps know my community even exists. My point is this: if you ran into a navy LT with no "legit" awards on his chest (as you have named) who had claimed to be just off his sea tour you'd automatically assume he was a dickbag and hadn't done anything because he didn't have a SSD or any in-theater awards. Is it right? No, but it is what it is. If the only thing I get out of three years of busting my ass is a NAM, then I'll take it happily, and be glad I get to do what I get to do. If my stack is all I'm being judged on, then I'm in the wrong place.
Thanks for that.
It still hurts after all these years.
Refined wise older warriors,
My very, very recent experience says Harrier dude's estimations are more sound than you could possibly know (Kosovo, OSW, OIF, OEF, New Dawn etc...). What most of _you_ did, and what a vast minority of the kids today do warrants more than a paycheck. The comments wrt awards are aimed at times when the folks making the comments were COGNISANT. In my mind, you should be as perturbed about cheapening awards' protocol as we are.
The "PM me if you don't get it" comment is mystifying, perplexing, demeaning and unbecoming (minus a few cool silver eagle points, A4s is still on top of the heap) considering the relevance and currency of experience.
HD, did you just get beckoned into the "skippers" office? HAHA!!!! If you don't walk out of the military with at least one cyber non-punitive letter, you could have had more fun.
My very, very recent experience says Harrier dude's estimations are more sound than you could possibly know (Kosovo, OSW, OIF, OEF, New Dawn etc...). What most of _you_ did, and what a vast minority of the kids today do warrants more than a paycheck. The comments wrt awards are aimed at times when the folks making the comments were COGNISANT. In my mind, you should be as perturbed about cheapening awards' protocol as we are.
The "PM me if you don't get it" comment is mystifying, perplexing, demeaning and unbecoming (minus a few cool silver eagle points, A4s is still on top of the heap) considering the relevance and currency of experience.
HD, did you just get beckoned into the "skippers" office? HAHA!!!! If you don't walk out of the military with at least one cyber non-punitive letter, you could have had more fun.
Medals are like assholes - everyone is one. Only you know if you really deserve the medal or if you really like being an asshole.
I had my fair share of medals and I watched their value decrease as my time in the Navy went on. I got my first NAM as an end of tour award from my first squadron when very few were awarded. I retired with 1 MSM, 3 NCMs, 2 JSAMs and 4 NAMs - which in 1998 was far more than most LCDRs. That first NAM was the one I was most proud to receive. Some of the rest I earned (one was a life saving award and one for a specific P-3 mission) and some were end of tour booby prizes. I do feel my S/F Air Medal was earned as I did get shot at twice in the process, felt I did a hell of a job protecting the grunts on the ground in Bosnia with timely reconn, and did direct more than a few point-nose guys where to put "bombs on foreheads" in the same theater. I felt my Persian Gulf patrols in 1988 during the Iran-Iraq war were more worthy of S/F Air Medals due to a much higher threat level (dodging Iranian/Iraqi dog fights, being chased by Iranian F-4s who had every intention of shooting us down, supporting Operation Preying Mantis, etc.) and the fact we did many things not done since the Viet Nam war by P-3s - however nothing was awarded. But the bottom line is I had really no input or control over any medal I ever received and it never entered my mind to fly my mission or do my job differently on the chance it might get me a medal. The same goes for 95% of the people I served with.
What many don't realize is that when guys like BzB, A4s and Cat were JOs, personal medals such as NAMs and NCMs were uncommon for JOs and not that much more common for DHs or XO/COs. It wasn't until the 1990s that it became common to see more and more medals on Navy guys. A lot of this was due to "Jointness" becoming the buzz word and making Navy guys competitive with the other service officers. I remember reporting into SOUTHCOM and being amazed at the medals on the Air Force and Army guys, O-3s & O-4s with multiple MSMs and Commendation medals - even a couple with LOMs. (Many AF and Army Generals did not think the Navy guys were any good because they had no or lower medals.)
As far as combat awards go, as far as I'm concerned anyone with one earned it. Especially the Viet Nam and earlier vets. Yeah we had some guys do some great, heroic stuff recently but on the whole, what has been going on in the air in the 1990s and 2000s isn't anywhere as hairy as it was for the Viet Nam guys let alone the Korea or WWII vets still around. When we go making broad stroke statements about the value or legitimacy of their combat medals, we're just talking out of our asses.
Many who deserve medals don't get them. I wouldn't be surprise if this is true for people who have posted in this thread. But that in no way takes away from the legitimacy, value or merit of those that are awarded. By knocking other's medals you are not deminishing their accomplishments, you are only diminishing yourself.
I had my fair share of medals and I watched their value decrease as my time in the Navy went on. I got my first NAM as an end of tour award from my first squadron when very few were awarded. I retired with 1 MSM, 3 NCMs, 2 JSAMs and 4 NAMs - which in 1998 was far more than most LCDRs. That first NAM was the one I was most proud to receive. Some of the rest I earned (one was a life saving award and one for a specific P-3 mission) and some were end of tour booby prizes. I do feel my S/F Air Medal was earned as I did get shot at twice in the process, felt I did a hell of a job protecting the grunts on the ground in Bosnia with timely reconn, and did direct more than a few point-nose guys where to put "bombs on foreheads" in the same theater. I felt my Persian Gulf patrols in 1988 during the Iran-Iraq war were more worthy of S/F Air Medals due to a much higher threat level (dodging Iranian/Iraqi dog fights, being chased by Iranian F-4s who had every intention of shooting us down, supporting Operation Preying Mantis, etc.) and the fact we did many things not done since the Viet Nam war by P-3s - however nothing was awarded. But the bottom line is I had really no input or control over any medal I ever received and it never entered my mind to fly my mission or do my job differently on the chance it might get me a medal. The same goes for 95% of the people I served with.
What many don't realize is that when guys like BzB, A4s and Cat were JOs, personal medals such as NAMs and NCMs were uncommon for JOs and not that much more common for DHs or XO/COs. It wasn't until the 1990s that it became common to see more and more medals on Navy guys. A lot of this was due to "Jointness" becoming the buzz word and making Navy guys competitive with the other service officers. I remember reporting into SOUTHCOM and being amazed at the medals on the Air Force and Army guys, O-3s & O-4s with multiple MSMs and Commendation medals - even a couple with LOMs. (Many AF and Army Generals did not think the Navy guys were any good because they had no or lower medals.)
As far as combat awards go, as far as I'm concerned anyone with one earned it. Especially the Viet Nam and earlier vets. Yeah we had some guys do some great, heroic stuff recently but on the whole, what has been going on in the air in the 1990s and 2000s isn't anywhere as hairy as it was for the Viet Nam guys let alone the Korea or WWII vets still around. When we go making broad stroke statements about the value or legitimacy of their combat medals, we're just talking out of our asses.
Many who deserve medals don't get them. I wouldn't be surprise if this is true for people who have posted in this thread. But that in no way takes away from the legitimacy, value or merit of those that are awarded. By knocking other's medals you are not deminishing their accomplishments, you are only diminishing yourself.
Mea Culpa...
After trading PMs w/ HD & MV, I am publicly apologizing to HD for my posts #s 248, 250, & 251. I retract the statements I made in these posts & regret any consternation caused to HD & anyone else, by these posts. It's not an excuse, but I was vigorously defending an awards system which seemed pretty much fair, during my era. I was totally ignorant of the deterioration which has obviously occurred since my era...along with many other of our best traditions in this era of increasing PC'ness.
In my era, it was considered "poor form" to question fellow Service Personnel's ribbons/medals. But, in this era of posers & ID thieves, perhaps this too, is no longer valid?
I shall in the future, restrict my comments to subjects which I am more "up to date" on. I stand embarrased, but chastened...and am now up & ready for relaunch!
BzB
After trading PMs w/ HD & MV, I am publicly apologizing to HD for my posts #s 248, 250, & 251. I retract the statements I made in these posts & regret any consternation caused to HD & anyone else, by these posts. It's not an excuse, but I was vigorously defending an awards system which seemed pretty much fair, during my era. I was totally ignorant of the deterioration which has obviously occurred since my era...along with many other of our best traditions in this era of increasing PC'ness.
In my era, it was considered "poor form" to question fellow Service Personnel's ribbons/medals. But, in this era of posers & ID thieves, perhaps this too, is no longer valid?
I shall in the future, restrict my comments to subjects which I am more "up to date" on. I stand embarrased, but chastened...and am now up & ready for relaunch!
BzB