18K for a rifle ??!!?? Wanna see what it looks like ... ???

[A4sForever]

This ChiCom Norinco NDM-86 offering just went down on GunBroker for 18K + change ... 18K ... in-fucking-credible. I called the seller a couple of days ago -- but he could hardly talk 'cause the price started @ $3700 and he was laughin' so hard. Is THIS country GREAT, or what ??? MERRY CHRISTMAS to him !!!

It just goes to show ... there's still a LOT of people out there w/ more $$$$ than brains.

Most of these very fine pieces have been going for 3K-6K ... depending on accessories (full-boat or not?) and condition. THIS one went for crazy money, largely because of the red velveteen case, which you seldom see today.

BUT: you could get a craftsman to build you a case for $300-500 ... instead of paying @ 10-12K for a 'original' (that NO ONE could identity) Chicom 'case' ... sheesh.

 

[sickboy]

And it's a Norinco!

 

[coolhandlukesd]

And it's a Norinco!

That is just nutz!*

 

[nittany03]

Wow. Just. Wow.

 

[Flying Toaster]

...and I thought these were overpriced for 12-15k! At least it's German and super accurate.

You can still get complete Romanian PSL's for around 650-900. I've never understood the price disparity. It's all commie trash which you'd be lucky to get 2 MOA out of.

 

[Wudgles]

I think we all need to thank the fine gentleman who bought that rifle for $18,000+. Now, I'm above reproach for spending money on building an AR-15 or a new Kimber 1911.

What a hero.

 

[eas7888]

The NDM-86 is a much better rifle than the PSL. The PSL was never meant to be a sniper rilfe, simply a designated marksman weapon. Much like the different versions of the M16/14 floating around in the Army today. Is it super accurate out to 1000m? No, it wasn't meant to be.

The NDM-86, on the other hand, is a sniper rifle. When used with the correct ammunition, one can expect very reasonable accuracy out of the rifle, on par with the Dragunov. Is it worth what was paid for it? I dont' think so, but apparently someone did. I'd much rather have the $500 PSL in my closet, since I can fire surplus garbage out of it all day long, and still knock down targets at 400M without a problem. I have a few friends that deer hunt with the PSL, with very good results.

 

[HackerF15E]

All part of the Chinese conspiracy to dominate the world.

 

[Tex_Hill]

A fool & his money...

 

[gaijin6423]

I think we all need to thank the fine gentleman who bought that rifle for $18,000+. Now, I'm above reproach for spending money on building an AR-15 or a new Kimber 1911.

What a hero.

That's what I was thinking. He may have more money than sense, but how can my wife get pissed if I drop a paltry 2 grand on something?

 

[Wudgles]

That's what I was thinking. He may have more money than sense, but how can my wife get pissed if I drop a paltry 2 grand on something?

"IT'S NOT LIKE I SPENT THE KIDS' GODDAMN COLLEGE FUND!" Wow. Come to think of it, $18k IS about the size of a college fund (for you poor saps that went to state schools).

In related news, I'm going to buy a bunch of nuggets, put them in velveteen boxes, sell them on gunbroker, and laugh my ass to the bank.

 

[phrogdriver]

The NDM-86 is a much better rifle than the PSL. The PSL was never meant to be a sniper rilfe, simply a designated marksman weapon. Much like the different versions of the M16/14 floating around in the Army today. Is it super accurate out to 1000m? No, it wasn't meant to be.

The NDM-86, on the other hand, is a sniper rifle. When used with the correct ammunition, one can expect very reasonable accuracy out of the rifle, on par with the Dragunov. Is it worth what was paid for it? I dont' think so, but apparently someone did. I'd much rather have the $500 PSL in my closet, since I can fire surplus garbage out of it all day long, and still knock down targets at 400M without a problem. I have a few friends that deer hunt with the PSL, with very good results.

I'm by no means one of the resident gun nuts on the site, but talking with Marine Scout Snipers, they said the Dragunov was shit. Were they just right, or just crapping on the competition and completely off base?

 

[eas7888]

I'm by no means one of the resident gun nuts on the site, but talking with Marine Scout Snipers, they said the Dragunov was shit. Were they just right, or just crapping on the competition and completely off base?

Well, yet again, the Dragunov isn't an M82 or the M40A3. It's a design that's nearly fifty years old. It IS a sniper rifle, but it's not going to have near the accuracy of most western sniper rifles for the simple fact that its point of manufacture was in the Soviet Union where production standards were usually focused on simplicity over quality. It's a semi-auto sniper rifle with an effective range of 800m. It's accurate, yes, but likely not nearly as accurate as what the Marine Scout Snipers were carrying around.

However, if I were to want a rifle that would function anywhere, any time, under any condition, I'd probably go with the Dragunov, for the simple fact that it's essentially an enlarged AK, with milled, as opposed to stamped components.

 

[Flying Toaster]

Oddly enough it looks like the Russian methodology turned out to be correct (at least during the height of Iraq). Their idea what more along the lines of attaching a sniper to a squad working in concert, rather than a two man team functioning autonomously with the "one shot, one kill" mentality, hence the choice of a semi-automatic platform. Holding 2-3 MOA is perfectly fine when you have a 10 shot box magazine, a plethora of targets, and aren't all that concerned about being located. All you really care about is that it can reach out to 800 yards and that it will go bang because you can be back on target in under a second or two. The chief problem with Dragunov's other than being a very old Russian design, is the idiots behind the trigger. While the M40 is a damn fine stick and on my short list of rifles to build, there is a reason we had to develop the M110. Then on the other hand you have Afghanistan where even a bolt 7.62 is underkill and they had to beef up the M24's to .300WSM and .338 Lapua, different tools for different jobs.

 

[nittany03]

However, if I were to want a rifle that would function anywhere, any time, under any condition, I'd probably go with the Dragunov, for the simple fact that it's essentially an enlarged AK, with milled, as opposed to stamped components.

Sorry, gotta call shenanigans here. The Dragunov is a short-stroke action similar to the piston-powered ARs on the market. Gas hits oprod, which hits the BCG, and cycles the action. Oprod and BCG are not connected, and thus allows for greater accuracy due to less mass cycling back and forth.

If you enlarge the AK action for 7.62x54R, you get what has been derided above as commie trash. That is, a PSL. Long-stroke action just like an AK or a Garand; BCG and oprod cycling as a unit. I happen to own both a Century PSL and a semi-auto AK74 clone. Only mechanical differences between the two are caliber and resulting size of parts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragunov_sniper_rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puşca_Semiautomată_cu_Lunetă

Emphasis mine:

The PSL's operation is the same long stroke piston action of the Kalashnikov family of weapons. Its appearance is similar to the Dragunov sniper rifle yet not one single part interchanges between the rifles.

The Dragunov's receiver bears a number of similarities to the AK action, such as the large dust cover, iron sights and lever safety selector, but these similarities are primarily cosmetic in nature.