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OK. TEAM. Who fired the missile near the SoCal OpArea?

He sez: "no (fuckin') way it's an airplane ... it's a missile".

I say: "Fuckin' A ... Tom"



If any of you had ever flown with missiles, fired them, seen them fired ... you might have a better clue. PLUS ... like CAT-man said: "With all the available recorded info that can be replayed, it should have been easy to identify by now, if it was an airliner".
 
Don't you think it will be pretty obvious when this same flight shows up every day?
 
eas7888 said:
Interesting, humorous, egotistical, and slightly insulting first post.
Click to expand...

Added bold.

He is an FE, they do that. Actually from my experience that was pretty mild.

Look up narcissist and you will find a description of your typical P-3 FE:icon_smil

I, I, me, me, I are typical words in their vocab.. :icon_tong:icon_tong

Hope the smiley faces and tongue faces take the edge off!
 
das said:
Don't you think it will be pretty obvious when this same flight shows up every day?
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EXACTLY. This flight shows up w/ great regularity, everyday. Soooooooo ... and let's answer the fucking question for a change and assume some accountability, 'das' ... why haven't the FEDs, the FAA, and the 'military' and all the rest pony'ed up w/ this info, assuming it was a commercial ... regular SKED ... flight ???

Do you know what a 'con' looks like ??? Different days, different temps, moisture, altitudes, yadda, yadda, yadda ... ???

Do you know what a missile shoot looks like ... ???

Or do you just know what other people post online ... ???

I'm not sayin' you're RIGHT or you're WRONG ... like I said: I don't KNOW w/ any degree of certainty. I just know enough to not close any options ...

nopac1.jpg

Image by A4sForever


Standing by for your 'insight' ... :)
 
Well, this flight doesn't run Wednesday or Thursday, but from Friday onward (assuming appropriate weather and other conditions)...

It has been suggested that FAA simply does not have the ability to readily, definitively identify flights in this context (i.e., video taken from some particular vantage point).

DOD is now saying it was probably just a plane:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/11/10/california.contrails/
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/11/10/blogger-solved-california-missile-mystery/
 
das said:
....It has been suggested that FAA simply does not have the ability to readily, definitively identify flights in this context (i.e., video taken from some particular vantage point)....
Click to expand...

'Suggested' by whom?? Because, that's wrong. ESPECIALLY when it's caused such a national shit-storm -- as 'they' COULD have ID'd the bird w/in an hour if they wanted to ...

But that's experience vs. web-guesstimating talkin' ...

You're a smart kid; but you're still a 'kid'. Question: do you have ANY aviation 'experience' other than what you can pull off the web ... ???
 
In my experience, whenever and as soon as something anomalous in the sky happens, multiple supervisors from multiple agencies say, "pull the tapes" so there is a record!

Therefore, there should be a simple and documentable answer based upon all the available recorded information to easily answer this issue. Meanwhile, one's personal speculation and opinion is but a soup sandwich.
 
A4sForever said:
'Suggested' by whom?? Because, that's wrong. ESPECIALLY when it's caused such a national shit-storm -- as 'they' COULD have ID'd the bird w/in an hour if they wanted to ...

But that's experience vs. web-guesstimating talkin' ...

You're a smart kid; but you're still a 'kid'. Question: do you have ANY aviation 'experience' other than what you can pull off the web ... ???
Click to expand...

I don't have the experience to definitively say myself -- and didn't. Just doing a lot of web-guesstimatin', like all good grasshoppers do.

I have, however, found that Occam's Razor indeed does provide the best explanations under most circumstances.

What's more likely here: that this is a secret missile launch being covered up, or something more strange or sinister, or worse yet, a launch by an adversary or some unknown phenomena we don't understand and can't identify...or that it's a jetliner's contrail viewed from the right angle, since they can and do appear "vertical" or near-vertical depending on one's vantage point?

For their part, US Airways and the FAA confirmed the flight that has been fingered as being aloft at the time (duh), but neither commented on whether this phenomenon was or could definitely be that aircraft. When this flight runs again on Friday and thereafter, I imagine many people will be looking for it, and if it shows up again, the same way (weather conditions permitting, of course), that should pretty much close the case (if that turns out to be the case, of course).

Again, what are your thoughts on what has been presented here (both have been updated since I first posted them):

http://uncinus.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/4/
http://blog.bahneman.com/content/it-was-us-airways-flight-808

I hope some of the same media outlets that blew this issue up take the time to see if they can reproduce the "launch" tomorrow...

All this web-guesstimatin' is challenging from an iPad, A4s!
 
das said:
....Occam's Razor indeed does provide the best explanations under most circumstances.....All this web-guesstimatin' is challenging from an iPad, A4s!
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Roger that ... and Occam's Razor (a.k.a. lex parsimoniae) = KISS (which is what we subscribed to in the ol' days before Father William of Ockham ever got his Wings) ...

But still ... when something doesn't 'make sense' ... THERE'S ALWAYS A REASON WHY ... 'cause EVERYTHING 'makes sense', when you come right down to it.

As to your links ... agree ... sometimes things appear as something else. That's where 'experience' comes into play ...

Tomorrow I will challenge YOU from MY iPad ... assuming I can get it up & runnin' ... I didn't get it today ... too much ALOHA goin' to get to the 'store'.
 
Agreed on all counts. Personally, I think the thing that didn't "make sense" here, and the reason why, was this: a helicopter news crew cameraman happening to notice a particularly stunning contrail...at just the right time of day...with just the right conditions...and just the right reflection of the sun from the aircraft to look like "rocket exhaust"...filming it...and having the facilities of a major city's news organization to push the story out there, which then gets picked up all over as the mystery "missile". NORAD and NORTHCOM and local radars can't say they saw anything, because they didn't.

A day turnaround for a DOD spokesman to say, "Yeah, it seems like it was probably just a plane after all and this matter is closed as far as DOD is concerned" (paraphrasing, of course) isn't all that long. But now the conspiracy theorists are going wild (the ones who believe that all contrails are actually chemical sprays -- "chemtrails" -- used to dumb down and control the population are particularly entertaining), and even if FAA or some other agency comes out and says "this IS such-and-such flight", those who don't want to believe, won't believe.

Oh, and you'll like the iPad. It's good for prognosticatin' and guesstimatin' and all manner of wasting time, in a cooler form factor.
 
eas7888 said:
Interesting, humorous, and slightly insulting first post.
Click to expand...

I try. :icon_wink

H60Gunner said:
Added bold.

He is an FE, they do that. Actually from my experience that was pretty mild.

Look up narcissist and you will find a description of your typical P-3 FE:icon_smil

I, I, me, me, I are typical words in their vocab.. :icon_tong:icon_tong

Hope the smiley faces and tongue faces take the edge off!
Click to expand...

We FE's, as a brotherhood, have developed our own special breed of hubris over the years. It has occasionally gotten us into trouble, it has given us a certain infamy, and it most certainly comes in handy for us as enlisted when dealing with the occasional overbearing senior officers in the flight station. Your description was pretty accurate H60. You must have dealt with FE's before. :icon_smil

I just did a quick google search to see if there were any updates on the story but it doesn't seem like anyone has presented any solid conclusive evidence as to what made the contrail. Despite the majority of experts saying that it was just a jet liner the news outlets are still portraying it as a possible missile launch cover-up. Having just attended the "Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear" I'm pretty sure this is just one more story the media has blown way out of proportion in order to instill fear in viewers. Fear = ratings. :shake_125
 
Got this from my Dad this morning...this is his conjecturin'.....

Let's see - DoD denies, NORAD/NORTHCOM denies, Pacific Missile Test Range location...... Hmmm
Sometime in the early/mid seventies, I was flying a night (really dark, no moon or stars) hop in an F-4J in southern CA. I asked for a night TACAN practice approach into Vandenberg AFB. After some initial hemming and hawing, the controller said okay but they had some things going on to the west and I should be prepared to break off the approach at any time. About half way through the approach, I received a very curt direction to level off, turn south and exit the pattern immediately. The next thing I knew the entire western sky lit up like a nuke. It was so bright that I was temporarily flash blinded and had real difficulty seeing my instruments. No one could/would tell us what had just happened – so we flew home to Miramar in a complete mystery. The media had a hey day with that one too, just like this event. "No one" knew what it was, not the government, the Air Force, the Navy, no one. Sometime later, I learned that it was a test launch of an ICBM from a C-141 (or C-5, I can’t remember). The missile was loaded "nose cone in" on tracks that would allow it to roll out Booster first down the opened tail ramp. It was stabilized into a vertical position by a drogue chute and then ignited remotely at altitude – apparently a success. Since SALT was on the table, I always presumed that this was a workaround for the limitations that would be put on the number of hard launch silos that was to be a part of the treaty.

Fast forward thirty five years – What missile silos have recently been taken out of play? (Hint: missile defense of Europe). What might be an alternate method of launching GBIs (Ground Based Interceptors)? Hmmm, of course that’s mere speculation on my part. Oh well.

R/ Jon
 
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