Lawful Orders

[boogerbrain]

Hello All:

I am currently in talks with an enlisted recruiter and may consider enlisting (and afterwards may consider reapplying for OCS).
I was hoping to get a better understanding of "lawful orders." I am trying to get a feel for how far an NCO or a commissioned officer's orders can go. I will write a few scenarios (some may perhaps be considered silly, but I am not trying to be a troll) and for those who have either been in the military please feel free to answer. In all scenarios, I am an ideal sailor who follows orders, works hard, etc.

Scenario #1: (hygenic scenario)
My NCO or commissioned officer, for whatever reason, orders me to grow/shave a mustache, cease to floss and brush my teeth for an extended period, cease to keep body hair trimmed to my liking, cease to wear deoderant, etc. am I required to follow such an order?

Scenario #2: (relationship scenario)
I have a religious NCO or commanding officer. I have a girlfriend, but we aren't
currently married. I get all dressed up for a nice date with said girlfriend,
and my commanding officer fearing I may participate in some premarital sex,
forbids me from seeing my girlfriend for the night and/or an extended period of time. Is this a "lawful order" and does it need to be followed?

Scenario #3: (review scenario: "lawful orders" not really in this scenario)
I know both enlisted and commissioned sailors are reviewed by their commanding
officers. I am a good sailor, do a good job on the ship, etc. However, again,
my commanding officer who writes my review gives me a bad score for no other
reason than he doesn't like me (for whatever reason). What do I do in such a
situation?

Scenario #4: (leave/free time scenario)
A number of years ago I was training in boxing/kickboxing, submission grappling,
and amateur wrestling. In addition, I enjoy working out with kettlebells, clubbells, macebells, etc. Should I enlist (and/or once I find a career type job) I
would again like to start training martial arts again (as well as continue my personal workouts). Let's say I enlist, and for no good reason my NCO/commanding officer doesn't particularly like me (though I am a good sailor and I follow orders), and forbids me from training in any type of martial arts or exercising to keep myself physically fit. Do I have to obey this order? Or once I am off duty, do I have the freedom to do as I wish, even if such an order were given?

Scenario #5: (OCS scenario)
After a few years as an enlisted sailor, I make it known to my NCO/commanding officer that I wish to reapply for OCS. My NCO/commanding officer forbids me from reapplying. Am I required to follow this order?

 

[HAL Pilot]

My CO orders me not to take a shit for a week. Do I have to follow this order???????

If this is the stuff you worry about, you need to re-think the military. Yes you will give up some rights a civilian has but it isn't slavery. They will teach you all about lawful orders at boot camp. Further, the officers, Chiefs and Petty Officers you serve under are not idiots.

 

[boogerbrain]

My CO orders me not to take a shit for a week. Do I have to follow this order???????

Haha, I certainly hope not. However, bowel movements are a normal bodily function and I can't imagine such an order being given (nor realisticly followed). The orders above, though highly unlikely, do seem (to me at least) plausible. Again, not trying to troll; just trying to get a feel for how far an NCO/ commissioned officer's authority may go.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

The orders above, though highly unlikely, do seem (to me at least) plausible.

Well, they aren't.

 

[eas7888]

Is this for real?

 

[boogerbrain]

HAL Pilot

Thanks for your further reply.
It is worth stating that at one time I was considering the monastic life and came to find that, at times, superiors may have misused their authority. In part, this eventually led to me not entering the novitiate.

 

[jtmedli]

Dude..WTF...is this for real? NCOs or COs usually don't get to that level because they're idiots or retards. Yes, some of them will have their quirks like we all do. Worrying about shit like this is 'nuking it' at it's finest. Take a deep breath and relax a little. There will be BS along the way and we will all deal with it. If you cant handle BS then dont get a job ANYWHERE (civilian or military).

Not liking you? Really? Have you ever had a job? There are certain people that you wont like and they wont like you. Just keep working hard and it will pay off. Kind of a 'grow where you're planted' thing. Nothing you can do about that whatsoever. FWIW most of the concerns stated above would be just as likely in the civilian world.

 

[boogerbrain]

Treetop Flyer

I will take it that what you mean is "no, you don't have to follow the orders in the scenarios listed above". Appreciated.

 

[jl08]

Haha, I certainly hope not. However, bowel movements are a normal bodily function and I can't imagine such an order being given (nor realisticly followed). The orders above, though highly unlikely, do seem (to me at least) plausible. Again, not trying to troll; just trying to get a feel for how far an NCO/ commissioned officer's authority may go.

Trust me, the orders that you suggested are just as unlikely as the one proposed by HAL Pilot.

But seriously, your CO will like you better if you grow a sweet 'stache

 

[boogerbrain]

Dude..WTF...is this for real? NCOs or COs usually don't get to that level because they're idiots or retards. Yes, some of them will have their quirks like we all do. Worrying about shit like this is 'nuking it' at it's finest. Take a deep breath and relax a little. There will be BS along the way and we will all deal with it. If you cant handle BS then dont get a job ANYWHERE (civilian or military).

Not liking you? Really? Have you ever had a job? There are certain people that you wont like and they wont like you. Just keep working hard and it will pay off. Kind of a 'grow where you're planted' thing. Nothing you can do about that whatsoever. FWIW most of the concerns stated above would be just as likely in the civilian world.

Yes, most can be experienced in the civilian world. However, unlike in the military, I can get out of the said situation (i.e. by quitting, and yes I have held a number of jobs before). Wow, didn't know this was such a touchie subject.

 

[boogerbrain]

Trust me, the orders that you suggested are just as unlikely as the one proposed by HAL Pilot.

But seriously, your CO will like you better if you grow a sweet 'stache

Appreciated.

 

[jtmedli]

Yes, most can be experienced in the civilian world. However, unlike in the military, I can get out of the said situation (i.e. by quitting, and yes I have held a number of jobs before). Wow, didn't know this was such a touchie subject.

Touchie? NO...a little ridiculous? Yes.

 

[Angels]

Only on AirWarriors...

I think this is where common sense comes into play. And last time I checked the military was pretty adamant about having good hygiene and staying physically fit.

 

[boogerbrain]

Touchie? NO...a little ridiculous? Yes.

Sorry, I from time to time have a problem of over analyzing certain situations.

 

[boogerbrain]

I wouldn't take it that way.

Circumstances can always arise where you may have to do something you don't want to do - like run into a compartment that is flooding to do damage control. Or stand watch on Christmas eve.

And yes the mullet and foo-man-chu will have to go, they tend to get caught in machinery and look like crap. But hard choices need to made.

And, there will be times where you may not be able to shower as long or as often as you like since a ships potable water can only be produced at a certain rate.


The only advice I would give you is this. You are looking to join a club, the club is not looking to join you. So YOU must conform to the club.

$Trader$
Thank you, which is why I am asking these questions before I sign on the dotted line. There really isn't a trial period with the military: you go to bootcamp/OCS where life is much different than active duty, and then go into active duty. I can't join the Navy and a few months after bootcamp decide, "Eh...this isn't for me." I'm not trying to sound like a little bitch (though it appears to some here I do sound whinny), just trying to get a feel for the limits (or lack thereof) of lawful orders. And again, as stated, I was at one time considering the monastic life (though no longer a theist) where one surrenders his/her will completly to the will of his/her superior(s) (so, for example, if your superior orders you to walk around barefoot in the snow as a sign of penance, you take this as the will of the Lord and do it).
Also, I just finished reading parts of "Lawful Orders-Manual of Court-Martial" and it is stated, "The order must relate to military duty, which includes all activities reasonably necessary to accomplish a military mission, or safeguard or promote morale, discipline, and usefulness of member of a command and directly connected with the maintenance of good order in the service. The order may not, without such a valid military purpose, interfer with private rights or personal affairs..." I think I have a better understanding now.