Stupid Questions about Naval Aviation (Part 3)

[coolhandlukesd]

The first Naval Aviation Observer (NAO) was Admiral William Moffett. In 1968 all NAOs were re-designated NFOs, so I don't know if there was technically a 'first' NFO.

Thank you Sir for the information. I was aware that in 1968 the NFO program was officially designated but did not know about the NAO designation.

^
Uncle Fester is right on with his post. The NAO/NFO program was not a "straight line," as was the Naval Aviator program.

There was a two-part article (16 total pages) in the Spring 2010 and Summer 2010 issues of The Hook magazine about non-Aviator crewman in Naval aircraft, including the rocky path to command that was finally made a reality in the early 1970s.

PM me if you'd like a PDF of the articles

Thank you Sir, Pm sent.

 

[SynixMan]

So obviously the planes are flown to where they're going, but how does the rest of the maintenance/support gravy train get to where they need to in the case of a squadron going on Det? Logistics flight to take them there? What about all the tools/ordnance/parts/etc? And does the squadron take up shop in a transient hangar?

 

[Wudgles]

So obviously the planes are flown to where they're going, but how does the rest of the maintenance/support gravy train get to where they need to in the case of a squadron going on Det? Logistics flight to take them there? What about all the tools/ordnance/parts/etc? And does the squadron take up shop in a transient hangar?

I can answer this for one squadron, but other than that I have no idea:

 

[wlawr005]

For helos we would fly some support personnel with us in the bird with enough tools to patch up any quick fixes. The rest of the guys followed in 15 pax vans and a panel truck (u-haul) full of support equipment. Usually a helo det has 25-40 people, so we're only talking 2-3 vans, plus the truck, and the birds.

As for the hanger, we will use one if it's available. I've done DETs where we used an old corner of an airfield or sometimes nothing at all.

 

[helolumpy]

Unless you have to meet your ship overseas, then you might get a good-deal 3 day flight in a C-130 from San Diego to Guam!!!

 

[Alpha_Echo_606]

Back in my day we use to catch a C-9 to get personal and gear to Det, and when we went to Fallon a small number of people were allowed POV. I know some of the Squadrons P3 types have what they call a trash hauler, used for transporting people and equipment to Det sites. They also use Commercial flights and FEDEX.

 

[A4sForever]

Back in my day we use to catch a C-9 to get personal and gear to Det, and when we went to Fallon a small number of people were allowed POV....

Same-o ... we used airlifts of R4Ds, CONVAIRs, R5Ds, C-9s, and C-12s for the MX troops and ground-pounder O's ... whatever was 'current' and available. Heck, we even used the back seat/right seat for the occasional 'special' mechanic and/or high-value aircraft part. It all depended on the size & planned duration of the DET.

We 'rented' the ordnance from the respective NAS and left it in the desert when we were 'done' with it -- providing ordnance was part of the NAS job.

A LOT of the folks -- 'extra' Aviators, ground O's, families and troops -- would go POV. There was one 'lookout point' in the middle of nowhere about halfway to Fallon on a low-level route that we'd hit at a pre-planned time when there was a caravan of 5-6 squadron POVs and people in attendance, waving -- we'd hit it w/ a couple or three sections @ 50' and 450 + KIAS ... kind of a 'go to Fallon' tradition and a big show for the home crowd.

 

[Flugelman]

I can't speak to what they do today but P2/P3 squadrons would fly a couple of birds out a few days early with a couple of senior maintenance and admin non-aircrew types included to start the turnover with the squadron being relieved. The maintenance shops would have "cruise boxes" with all required tools/equipment packed and admin offices would pack all pubs and paperwork in same. These went on a cargo airlift along with non aircrew folks. Sometimes a 3 or 4 day trip back when C-118s provided trans-pac services. With the advent of the C-141 it took a lot less time, although not necessarily more comfortable. It was good to be aircrew because you usually made the trip on your own airplane and had liberty the first day on deployment. Rinse/repeat in reverse going home and do it all again a year or so later.

 

[Gatordev]

A LOT of the folks -- 'extra' Aviators, ground O's, families and troops -- would go POV. There was one 'lookout point' in the middle of nowhere about halfway to Fallon on a low-level route that we'd hit at a pre-planned time when there was a caravan of 5-6 squadron POVs and people in attendance, waving -- we'd hit it w/ a couple or three sections @ 50' and 450 + KIAS ... kind of a 'go to Fallon' tradition and a big show for the home crowd.

That's pretty cool. And by cool, of course, I mean completely unsafe and I'll be making a notation in your PERMANENT RECORD.

The C-130 still moves people around plenty. Nothing more fun than landing at a 4000' runway in a C-130...and then it blows a tire...a wheel...a landing gear strut. And then seeing said C-130 a week later when you fly over and they're still working on it. D'oh!

 

[MIDNJAC]

So obviously the planes are flown to where they're going, but how does the rest of the maintenance/support gravy train get to where they need to in the case of a squadron going on Det? Logistics flight to take them there? What about all the tools/ordnance/parts/etc? And does the squadron take up shop in a transient hangar?

Herks, NALO, and comair normally mixed in some way shape or form, at least from what I have seen thus far. Seems like they always hook up the guys downstairs in mx with those nice 0200 show times (ughhhhh)

 

[insanebikerboy]

A U-haul van supposed to carry all maintenance equipment.....filled full of the maintenance chief's motorcycles instead.

 

[MIDNJAC]

A U-haul van supposed to carry all maintenance equipment.....filled full of the maintenance chief's motorcycles instead.

Reminds me of our Tailhook "det" this year......one fellow CONE, alone and unafraid, in a uhaul, driving 10 hrs from NKX to the Nug, loaded with this stupid carrier bar that took about 30 man hours to get moved down from the top level of our hangar. With any luck, we left it there for next year. I'm sure it is maintaining a low profile under all the camo netting

 

[highside7r]

The C-130 still moves people around plenty. Nothing more fun than landing at a 4000' runway in a C-130...and then it blows a tire...a wheel...a landing gear strut. And then seeing said C-130 a week later when you fly over and they're still working on it. D'oh!

Ah yes, those wonderful AUTEC dets!

 

[wlawr005]

I love the "spare parts" at the end of the runway in AUTEC. Always gives you that warm and fuzzy.

 

[exhelodrvr]

Do they still fly the contract H-3s there for the launch and recoveries?

What was the name of the bar there?

(1984 was my last det there, so it's been awhile.)