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Russian Navy getting their sea legs

Once saw an AD-5W catch a wire with his hook up on a touch and go. Tail wheel hit a wire, bounced it up, he had full power and way over rotated, and the hook caught a wire. The aircraft stopped about ten feet in the air, thirty degrees nose high, then slammed into the deck. The fuselage aft of the wing had a definate bend in it. The pilot shut down, climbed out, walked into flight deck control. pulled off his name tag with the wings on it and threw it on the mangler's table and said "I'm on the next COD out of here." I was scheduled to "hot seat" that aircraft when he finished. I waited until the next guy finished and completed my refreashers in his aircraft.
 
Treetop Flyer said:
The idea is to hold optimum AOA and use power to control glideslope. Banking will kill some lift so you have to correct with more power. If you use the nose too much to control your decent you can wind up like the guy in the video and almost have a catastrophic in-flight engagement, or get too slow and depart. I'm sure there are some LSO's on here who can give a much more detailed explanation.
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To add to what you said, the way that it was described by my CQ LSO was that on-speed ensures that the hook is in the right position on touchdown. You get fast at the ramp, and you raise the hook point by some amount (because of the change in pitch) which can lead to a bolter. Get slow, you lower the hook point, and you may have contact with the wires before the jet touches down......also called an in-flight engagement. My experience at the boat proved the point.....the only two times I boltered I was full fast at the ramp, even with the ball only slightly high above the datums.
 
yak52driver said:
I'm not sure if this carries over at all to a carrier approach, but I teach studs that pitch controls airspeed, power controls glide slope. I know AOA is used in jets as opposed to airspeed, but does the power play the same role? I know I've read that with any bank to correct alignment jets on a carrier approach need to add power to avoid sinking, just trying to understand this a little better. Thanks.
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Yes. Power works the same way. AOA is used instead of airspeed as Paddles is actually waving your hook, not your eyeball. So regardless of gross weight, in order to fly the hook to the right place in space (between the 2 and 3 wires), you must use your eyes to fly the meatball. Your eyes and the hook are not in the same place. So the meatball is calibrated for each aircraft's hook-to-eye distance, in order to put the hook in the proper spot when you see a centered ball. So if you're fast, you are at a lower AOA, and the hook is higher than the meatball shows you. This results in a bolter. If you're slow, the hook is lower than the meatball shows you. This can, at worst, result in an inflight. The position of the hook is also why Paddles(es?) beat into their charges to NEVER, EVER, EVER do what the Rooskie pilot did and pull the nose up on a waveoff. You are to add full power and MAINTAIN ONSPEED until the VSI is positive. Otherwise, you do just what he did, which is place your hook in a position to not let you wave off, but instead come crashing to the deck.

You too, technically, need to add power to avoid sinking. An aircraft at airspeed X generates a given amount of lift Y in the direction of its lift vector, which is straight above your head. This counteracts gravity, either allowing you to fly straight and level or inducing a sink rate. But if you induce bank angle θ, then the lift which is counteracting weight now becomes Y cos θ, which is less, thus inducing a greater VSI. It just doesn't (usually) matter as much. glasses..gif
 
yak52driver said:
I'm not sure if this carries over at all to a carrier approach, but I teach studs that pitch controls airspeed, power controls glide slope. I know AOA is used in jets as opposed to airspeed, but does the power play the same role? I know I've read that with any bank to correct alignment jets on a carrier approach need to add power to avoid sinking, just trying to understand this a little better. Thanks.
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AOA does correspond to an airspeed and the approach speed is predicated by the gross weight of the aircraft at the time - flap settings will have an effect as well. An example:

An EA-6B has a base approach speed of 115KIAS with full flaps. For normal configurations you multiply the fuel (all internal at this point) by 1.5 and add that to the base speed. Normal configuration bringing back 8Klbs of fuel = 8x1.5+115 = 127KIAS. When the aircraft is configured and decelerated to its proper landing attitude the airspeed indicator should be showing 127+- with an amber 'donut' that serves as an easier reference point for proper attitude / airspeed ---- For the other hookers and paddles out there, please grant me a pass on that last part, trying to keep it somewhat simple. Flap settings will affect the base approach speed of an aircraft as well. For a Prowler flying at half flap (which is what is almost exclusively used behind the ship) the base approach speed is approximately 10 knots faster than when at full flaps. Flap positions are usually standardized for each aircraft under normal conditions. If there are aircraft malfunctions or environmental conditions that dictate, the pilot will select a different flap setting. An example is the Rhino. When wind over the deck (WOD) is greater than 35 knots the Rhino pilot must switch from flaps full to flaps half.

Its also important to point out that AOA is typically measured in "units". The target on speed AOA for the EA-6B 17 units. There is a relationship between that number and others. L/D max is somewhere right around 15 units (dirty) and departure will typically occur around 21 units (again, dirty). As the aircraft gets further and further away from the targeted 17 units the aircraft will begin to behave rather differently. As has been pointed out, if the approach is flown at a lower than optimum AOA it will have a flatter attitude effectively raising the hook and increasing the likelihood of boltering. Flying slow lowers the hook point and puts the jet closer to aerodynamic stall. Not being onspeed has an effect on a factor called "hook-to-eye" - I've been talking around it up until this point because its a bit beyond the scope of what you probably care about.


See the below link for a basic how to guide...

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/pubs/folder5/T45/P-1211.PDF
 
Translation::)

Meatball, lineup, AOA .... Meatball, lineup, AOA ... Meatball, lineup, AOA ....

.... repeat and do @ 100 times in @ 30-40 seconds while moving from the 90 to the wires & you'll be a big hit w/ the LSO's ...
usskittyhawk.jpg
 
Have you guys seen this carrier? It has a jump ramp in the front, like the Brits do, I am no expert, but maybe their approach is different? Nose up, just in case something like this happened?

It is a cool video though! When I lived in Europe, I watched the Russians do some shows and they were always the craziest. I guess some of their stunts are not legal in the states, or that is what I heard anyways.
 
NAVYBM2 said:
Have you guys seen this carrier? It has a jump ramp in the front, like the Brits do, I am no expert, but maybe their approach is different? Nose up, just in case something like this happened?

It is a cool video though! When I lived in Europe, I watched the Russians do some shows and they were always the craziest. I guess some of their stunts are not legal in the states, or that is what I heard anyways.
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Ship still has an angled deck so no, they would not pull the nose up like that at all.
 
nittany03 said:
You too, technically, need to add power to avoid sinking. An aircraft at airspeed X generates a given amount of lift Y in the direction of its lift vector, which is straight above your head. This counteracts gravity, either allowing you to fly straight and level or inducing a sink rate. But if you induce bank angle θ, then the lift which is counteracting weight now becomes Y cos θ, which is less, thus inducing a greater VSI. It just doesn't (usually) matter as much. View attachment 11147
Click to expand...


Some days I feel like if I can get a stud to make it to any portion of the runway it is a victory, let alone picking a spot and hitting it. I teach forward slips to my students, which is a graphic example of banking and yawing the a/c to create a significant sink rate without an increase in airspeed. Thanks to all for the explanation, it was simple enough for even me to understand! (though i'm sure it's much more complicated than you made it out to be, especially when you're in the a/c on final)
 
If you hit the ramp on-speed....You're a quitter. This guy is definitely not a quitter. Probably also shouldn't be flying jets around boats.
 
I finally got to see the vid from the OP ... something's rotten w/ my vid links in posts in the new AW's update on my Win7 machine, but I digress ............ :sleep_125

It looks to me EXACTLY like a WOAR ... or just a late WO .... w/ a gross nose-up overcorrection by the pilot who can get away w/ it 'cause he's got a whole lotta' thrust .... or .... it's a test situation. But if it were that -- I don't think the hook would be down.

In any case, the stupid fuck missed an inflight engagement by inches .... and that won't cut it on any day, any way .... :yell_125:
 
yak52driver said:
I'm not sure if this carries over at all to a carrier approach, but I teach studs that pitch controls airspeed, power controls glide slope. I know AOA is used in jets as opposed to airspeed, but does the power play the same role? I know I've read that with any bank to correct alignment jets on a carrier approach need to add power to avoid sinking, just trying to understand this a little better. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Most of the responses have already covered the bulk of it, but different aircraft do require some finesse a times. IE, in a super hornet, just pulling power will result first in a drop in airspeed before affecting your glide slope.
 
JustAGuy said:
Most of the responses have already covered the bulk of it, but different aircraft do require some finesse a times. IE, in a super hornet, just pulling power will result first in a drop in airspeed before affecting your glide slope.
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I hear it takes a lot of finesse to press that auto-throttle button. ;)
I kid, I kid.

As for the Russian pass, the real story is that the carrier was in the wrong position due to a navigational error, so the jet tried to pick it up with its tailhook and fly it a couple miles then drop it off.
 
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