Blackwater 61

[Brett327]

I've got no problem with contracting out certain things if that's what it takes to get the job done, but if we're going to go that route, we have to ensure that the proper level and amount of oversight and accountability is in place so that there are clearly defined consequences and procedures to follow when people go "off the reservation" or as in this case, display what appears to be gross negligence in the performance of their duties.

Brett

 

[The Chief]

"The ends justify the means."It always has, to some degree.How is hiring mercenaries different than giving aid to another country in exchange for their support?

Mercenary has become a term of "art". Many on the left side describe U. S. Military in Iraq, Afganistan .... as mercenaries. So when you hear someone belittle mercenaries, make sure you know whom they are talking about.

Anyone remember the AVG or Flying Tigers? Met a bunch of them several years after the war, they all hung out in Charlies Steak House, Tachikawa, Japan. They had mophed into a "cargo" operation out of Tachikawa, some finding their way into Air America in SEA. More than one US Military crew were picked up by the AA group.

 

[squorch2]

Many on the left side describe U. S. Military in Iraq, Afganistan .... as mercenaries.

Who describes them this way? I hate the practice of "many in <a group I despise> say <some blatantly false or outrageous thing>."

 

[ryan1234]

There is a huge difference between your "pilot error" and gross pilot negligence and incompetance! Especially leading to uneccessary fatalities!

And Alaska flying and 5800 TT doesn't carry any mail with me. I once flew with a former Alaska pilot with more than double that time. Wosrt pilot I ever flew with! And he's dead now... thankfully for his would have been, future passengers.

How do you know these details? And what is your connection with the company to so flatly exonerate them, in the face of massive contrary evidence?

I agree with you, gross pilot negligence, etc... either way it happens to military and civilian alike regardless of experience.

Anyways... regardless of "in country experience", a map is a map and a mountain is a mountain - there was no significant weather observed that day. Regardless of how much mail it carries, Alaska is still a hostile environment to fly in...and 5800 TT represents an amount of experience where in you should be able to make good decisions regarding navigation, density altitude, and sterile cockpit procedures.


I'm not supporting BW for what happened, nor would I exonerate the pilots (quite the opposite)... just trying to keep it in perspective.


The details can be found here:

http://oversight.house.gov/images/stories/documents/20071012205257.pdf

 

[Flash]

Anyone remember the AVG or Flying Tigers? Met a bunch of them several years after the war, they all hung out in Charlies Steak House, Tachikawa, Japan. They had mophed into a "cargo" operation out of Tachikawa, some finding their way into Air America in SEA. More than one US Military crew were picked up by the AA group.

The AVG had the explicit consent and blessing of the administration at the time and became part of the USAAF just six months after Pearl Harbor, at least the unit and the planes did since most of the pilots left. That situation and the one today with the vast majority of contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan today is drastically different.

 

[The Chief]

Who ,,,, I hate ....

Hate is not a healthy emotion to carry around. Agree,

I should have had said some, sorry.

 

[exhelodrvr]

Anyone remember the AVG or Flying Tigers? Met a bunch of them several years after the war, they all hung out in Charlies Steak House, Tachikawa, Japan. They had mophed into a "cargo" operation out of Tachikawa, some finding their way into Air America in SEA. More than one US Military crew were picked up by the AA group.

Yes - there were also a number of Americans who served with Canadian or British forces prior to U.S. entry into WWII.

 

[Flash]

Yes - there were also a number of Americans who served with Canadian or British forces prior to U.S. entry into WWII.

Not quite the same, they didn't fight for money. Money was actually a very large motivator for many of the AVG, they were offered large salaries for the day with huge bonuses for each aircraft they shot down. A big part of the reason they were a pretty 'colorful' bunch.

 

[Mumbles]

I couldn't get over the Col's wife's, (a Col herself) expression as she was listening to these clowns talk about the most appropriate "butt rokk" music on the recovered voice recorder. To say that these bozos had a cavalier attitude about flying in an unfamiliar combat zone would be the understatement of the century.

 

[Pepe]

I wonder what my instructor would say if I told him it didn't really matter where I was because all the valley's would spit me out to the south.

 

[squorch2]

Hate is not a healthy emotion to carry around. Agree,

I should have had said some, sorry.

You didn't answer my question.

 

[exhelodrvr]

They were being paid. A mercenary is someone who is hired to fight for a country other than their own.

 

[NAVYBM2]

I can't believe it!
It takes how much money to train a pilot by the military?
Yeah, that's right they pay billions of $$$ to these private contractors to fly our guys over there. For that kind of money they could have trained a monkey to fly a plane better than these idiots. Well, I am sorry for the loss of this family but this is good for all the pilot hopefuls like me. I mean, come on, if they let these guys fly, why shouldn't they let me fly?
Sorry guys!!!
I am upset about this because I have been eying and working for a commission for a VERY long time and stories like these, civilian idiots killing our own, just get on my nerves.

 

[Brett327]

I can't believe it!
It takes how much money to train a pilot by the military?
Yeah, that's right they pay billions of $$$ to these private contractors to fly our guys over there. For that kind of money they could have trained a monkey to fly a plane better than these idiots. Well, I am sorry for the loss of this family but this is good for all the pilot hopefuls like me. I mean, come on, if they let these guys fly, why shouldn't they let me fly?
Sorry guys!!!
I am upset about this because I have been eying and working for a commission for a VERY long time and stories like these, civilian idiots killing our own, just get on my nerves.

Not a very sensitive or mature perspective there shipmate.

Brett

 

[OUSOONER]

I can't believe it!
It takes how much money to train a pilot by the military?
Yeah, that's right they pay billions of $$$ to these private contractors to fly our guys over there. For that kind of money they could have trained a monkey to fly a plane better than these idiots. Well, I am sorry for the loss of this family but this is good for all the pilot hopefuls like me. I mean, come on, if they let these guys fly, why shouldn't they let me fly?
Sorry guys!!!
I am upset about this because I have been eying and working for a commission for a VERY long time and stories like these, civilian idiots killing our own, just get on my nerves.

What makes you think you could or would have done any better? Do you know what kind of aviator you're going to be? The focus shouldn't be on the pilots, but the company hiring. I could ask to try and land a Hornet in woxof conditions with my limited aviation experience, but the fault would lie with the Navy if they accepted my request.

I don't think these guys tried to fuck up, they applied for a job and got hired. Blackwater could have not done so. I think some of the anger is misguided.