It's a USAF thing - they do it a lot. For the OP, it's very rare in the Navy.
Brett
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Transitioning from one aircraft community to another during career
- Thread starter jg5343
- Start date
It's a USAF thing - they do it a lot. For the OP, it's very rare in the Navy.
Brett
3 platforms in seven years
I started in S-3Bs, went EA-6B and now EA-18G...like Brett says very rare but it can be done.
I started in S-3Bs, went EA-6B and now EA-18G...like Brett says very rare but it can be done.
Not at ALL trying to turn this into "what's better/harder: pilot or NFO?", but isn't it typically easier to retrain an NFO from, say, an ECMO to a WSO or to change airframes with a similar mission (EA-6B to EA-18G) etc?
For a pilot, it is a completely different animal, and while piloting skills are universal to some degree, it seems like taking a P-3 Pilot and turning him into a hornet pilot would take a lot more work than taking a P-3 NFO and turning him into a WSO.
Is this a completely wrong assumption (that's all this post is intended as: a question).
Regardless, in both cases it seems to be rare to transition and it is a process of applying and basically telling you're community (via your application) that you don't want to be there anymore.
It seems like it was a more common thing in the old days when there were more platforms and the transitions were shorter - I see a lot of retired guys (sim instructors, for example) with a ton of platforms in their logbook. For example, IIRC, Col. Stoffey flew H-1's, H-34's, and OV-10's in the space of one deployment.
Absolutely not. Upon what do you base this assumption? A transition to another airframe is mostly about learning new systems. Both crewmembers have to learn all of the new handling characteristics as well, not just the guy at the controls. A VP NFO would have to go back through the TRACOM TACAIR pipeline if he transitioned to TACAIR, just as a pilot would.
Brett
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
So Brett,
A VAW NFO has to know "how much" rudder to boot in when doing a break at 250KIAS?.. Nah.. Just like I haven't had to learn the differences between Gr2/HE2K/SomeothervariantIcant'recallthatistransparent to pilots. I know how to get alternate airflow rolling for the INS's in case I am riding in the back on a FCLP hop and how to pop the fire extinguisher into the MPDP and how to drop the hook and release 2 degree stops from the back.. That's all the backend I know at this point. Just like they don't know "how much" rudder I boot in on a SSE go-around or what a PEL looks like.
Now, knowing systems to a point is somewhat important. Learning the 'pilot' systems of the E2 was not that bad. Learning how to fly with them degraded.. Another story. (ask Goober about my rudder skills).
There are certain handling characteristics that affect the mission profile that our NFOs should know, and I should know how the aircraft handling can affect the Radar/Mission.
HOWEVER.. The NFOs here probably couldn't tell you the monkey skills to do a proper wings level transition in the E2. It's not their skill set. They dont' need to know it. Just like I don't know ALL of what they do there in the back with their majic boxes.
A VAW NFO has to know "how much" rudder to boot in when doing a break at 250KIAS?.. Nah.. Just like I haven't had to learn the differences between Gr2/HE2K/SomeothervariantIcant'recallthatistransparent to pilots. I know how to get alternate airflow rolling for the INS's in case I am riding in the back on a FCLP hop and how to pop the fire extinguisher into the MPDP and how to drop the hook and release 2 degree stops from the back.. That's all the backend I know at this point. Just like they don't know "how much" rudder I boot in on a SSE go-around or what a PEL looks like.
Now, knowing systems to a point is somewhat important. Learning the 'pilot' systems of the E2 was not that bad. Learning how to fly with them degraded.. Another story. (ask Goober about my rudder skills).
There are certain handling characteristics that affect the mission profile that our NFOs should know, and I should know how the aircraft handling can affect the Radar/Mission.
HOWEVER.. The NFOs here probably couldn't tell you the monkey skills to do a proper wings level transition in the E2. It's not their skill set. They dont' need to know it. Just like I don't know ALL of what they do there in the back with their majic boxes.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Part of the transitions depend on timing. Back in the day, when they were replacing platforms more often then they are now, it was feasible. Nowadays - you might get two. If you originally get assigned to a legacy aircraft, you can transition (ergo H-46D to MH-60S, or CH-46E to MV-22, or S-3B to F/A-18E/F or E-6 or...), sometimes without a transition board...
Your NFOs aren't like ours, or the Rhino guys. Co-piloting isn't one of their duties. I have to know the monkey skills because I don't have the luxury of having another more experienced pilot aboard when the junior guy is flying. I have to know how much my pilot needs to pull in the break, or that he's developing too high a rate of descent in his approach turn, or that he's back on the power too much when there's a big burble. That's the difference. You have no frame of reference in this matter.
Brett
It seems to me like a helo pilot transitioning to fly hornets would be more of a stretch and a PITA than most NFO community transitions, but I realize I could be wrong. Is that transition ever made with the Navy? It seems like it would be a pretty radical one...
Sure it does. It is a package submitted to boards and is approved or denied. I'm sure it's happened more than once in the history of helos and hornets.. Helo pilot goes back to T-34's and does an abridged syllabus and then head to T-45s. Basically what MB did, only they continue through phase II and the strike syllabus then head to the RAG.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
One of my HT instructors is now an F/A-18 pilot.
Its one thing to say its happened. (damn near everything under the sun has happened at one time or another) I was wondering more along the lines of is it done. (like 2 out of the last 5 strike transitions were helo guys, vice "yea we had someone do it back in '94). And if I remember correctly MB put in for tacair and E2/C2. They gave him E2/C2. So is it an extremely rare thing or more along the lines of "its done but not all that common"?
Was he a Marine or Navy? I was told from our OPSO and a sim instructor that there was a time that they were pretty much forcing guys to transition in to jets because there was a need on the Marine side.
There are an X number of transitions a year...each community allows for a certain number to leave and enter. So we all know of a person who did it because folks apply each year and some get it. I know of 3 E2/C2 types who transitioned in my years, one to F-18's, one to Prowlers and one to S-3's.