Primary alter syllabus?

[Moc1Sig]

I dono what this is actually called, but a friend in primary a year ago said that he was put in a different syllabus. Basically he came in with like 300 hours and multi commercial. not sure that the ratings matter but, to my understanding he was basically put in a expedited syllabus. (i.e. ended up flying less hours with more crammed in). Not sure if his grades were any different, i'm sure it was still the same NSS relation to his class.

If anyone has any knowledge of this, it would be appreciated. Just grazing through the primary threads and clicking the search tab, and thought about it.

If so, is it just something your assigned or do you have an option? Seemed like I saw one of the winged guys say that he switched something in primary, and if he had stayed he might not have got the platform he has now. noted this is not a question referring to how it affects your grades, or what you select. just if it exist and if it is an option.

 

[MettGT]

I dono what this is actually called, but a friend in primary a year ago said that he was put in a different syllabus. Basically he came in with like 300 hours and multi commercial. not sure that the ratings matter but, to my understanding he was basically put in a expedited syllabus. (i.e. ended up flying less hours with more crammed in). Not sure if his grades were any different, i'm sure it was still the same NSS relation to his class.

If anyone has any knowledge of this, it would be appreciated. Just grazing through the primary threads and clicking the search tab, and thought about it.

If so, is it just something your assigned or do you have an option? Seemed like I saw one of the winged guys say that he switched something in primary, and if he had stayed he might not have got the platform he has now. noted this is not a question referring to how it affects your grades, or what you select. just if it exist and if it is an option.

There is an accelerated primary syllabus for people with a bunch of hours. It's something that you're assigned to, I believe. If you do a search along those lines, you should be able to find more information because it's been discussed before.

 

[Moc1Sig]

There is an accelerated primary syllabus for people with a bunch of hours. It's something that you're assigned to, I believe. If you do a search along those lines, you should be able to find more information because it's been discussed before.

Rog, couldn't think of a good tag. accelerated* was trying expedited, primary classes...ect. should have been more creative, might have done better on the lexisnexus(Court case search engine) law assignment.

So, it is just assigned. hrm, well out of my hands.

Appreciated

 

[Gatordev]

It's technically possible to ask for it, but don't count on anything. Be up front w/ your onwing about your prior time and after the first flight or two, if he thinks it's worth it, he may recommend it.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Also, most of the IP's I talked to while I was in primary said that because of the change in the way graded items are totalled, there is now not much of an advantage to this program. Maybe someone more knowledgeable about the primary grading system can explain (or debunk) this. I was on it for a small portion of primary and didn't really notice any difference other than skipping a couple flights.

 

[bunk22]

IMO, just go through the regular syllabus. I've flow with kids who had up to 450+ flight hours who were not impressive while flying with guys with 60 hours who were shit hot. Point is, why risk it? If you're shit hot, a few extra flights isn't going to hurt.

Funny in that of the number of studs I flew with at VT-6 over the past 1 year and 10 months or so, the top 4 that stand out, three had flight time and two were Italian. One was a Marine with around 60 hours and the best was a prior NFO....Dirte, you out there?? The few others to round out the top 10 were all American with little to no flight time. I had one kid who just sucked in FAM's and I fly with him on a PA, C4501 and he rocks the aerobatics

 

[MIDNJAC]

IMO the guys with prior time (to include myself) have 2, maybe 3, big problems to contend with:

1) Bad habits learned in civvie training (I had some, and didn't realize it until primary)
2) Feeling that you can get by with your prior experience alone and kind of wing it with the rest. I wouldn't say that I fell into this category, though it was sometimes painful to stick to the FTI word for word when you knew how to do something in a slightly different way. There were folks who did refuse to pick up the books though, and that is where you get those stories of 1000 hr CFII's attriting. The syllabus is so dumbed down that all you really need to do is learn the procedures and then practice. Not a whole lot of thinking left to do.
3) Recency of flight experience. For me this was a challenge....I had ~300 hrs prior to starting, but I had been out of the cockpit almost entirely for around 5 years. Some of the Riddle guys probably wouldn't have this problem, but I definitely needed to brush off the cobwebs and the accelerated program doesn't really allow you to do that very well.

Just my .02

 

[kmac]

From the flight leader/stucon perspective...
Midnjac is correct in that there was a grading system change for Primary NSS. In a nutshell (as this has already been discussed on this board), 90% of the NSS is how you compare score wise (adding up all of the individual maneuver grades) with other students in your squadron (not all squadrons, just your squadron) and 10% of the grade comes from how you compare in the number of marginals and unsats (1 marginal = 1/2 unsat) with your fellow squadronmates. The only change that occurred was that before this, the 10% portion was how you compared in the number of total graded items (TGI). That meant that if you had less graded items than the squadron average, you would have a slightly (and a big SLIGHTLY) higher NSS. That is why under the old system one could argue that an accelerated student was better off because he/she would have a lower total graded items than the average. However, remember that that is only 10% of the grade. Would that same student do better if he/she had the additional flights (to match what a "normal" student would fly)?
The logic behind the argument that accelerating a student does NOT help is simple... if a student is already above average, then an additional flight(s) would most likely produce even higher scores for that student. Since the scores are 90% of the NSS, then those improved grades (compared to the average) would more than offset the cost of the minor increase in TGI (with that only counting for 10%). I believe that both had value points, and unfortunately I've never seen a study that compared the what-if scenario of accelerating a student (which actually wasn't accelerated) under the old system.
And now a little recent history... In late last year or early this year, such a research project happened under the new grading system at either CTW-4 or CNATRA (I'm not sure which). Several completers NSS from VT-27 (and perhaps others) were compared with a what-if scenario of skipping 2-3 flights. The results were that accelerating a student was still beneficial for that individual's NSS. My biggest gripe about the results was that the methodology to achieve them. Basically the assumption was made that the last flight of the block produced the highest grades (pretty safe assumption for the most part). However, the flights that were pulled to create an "accelerated" student were the second to last flight of each block. The assumption that the best grades come on the last flight is not because it's the last flight, but because of the flights prior to it producing the skills necessary to achieve the higher scores. Therefore, when pulling out the relatively weaker flights from a student's syllabus, of course the NSS is going to go up. I'd like to see the results when they pull the LAST flight of each block, since in reality that is the one that would not be there if a student was accelerated. Is that as clear as mud?

 

[Uncle Fester]

From the flight leader/stucon perspective...beep boop beep beep...

Ah...metrics. Trying to quanitfy the unquantifiable and objectify the subjective. :icon_tong

I don't see the point of accelerating students due to prior civvie time. Military aviation just does things so differently, I think it hinders students and punishes bad habits far more often than it helps either the pipeline or the students. Seems like for every student whose prior time is beneficial, there are a dozen who struggle.

 

[kmac]

I don't see the point of accelerating students due to prior civvie time.... more beeps and bopps.

Simple: ask any OPSO. You can get the X without spending any cash. This isn't about training future naval aviators, but creating widgets. Duh!

 

[MasterBates]

Seems like for every student whose prior time is beneficial, there are a dozen who struggle.

BINGO!

Aside from being able to talk on the radio, and having better BAW, I worked harder UNLEARNING than I did learning stuff when I went thru the first time..

2nd time, I knew better and just adopted the "when in Rome, do as Romans do" philosiphy for the most part, and I was much happier.

 

[HighDimension]

I don't see the point of accelerating students due to prior civvie time. Military aviation just does things so differently, I think it hinders students and punishes bad habits far more often than it helps either the pipeline or the students. Seems like for every student whose prior time is beneficial, there are a dozen who struggle.

Primary flying involved memorizing a procedure and then demonstrating you can do it in the air. There wasn't much room for making your own decisions. I had prior time and just used to supplement what I was taught in Primary. I didn't see the point of doing two more 4200 block flights when I already knew the procedures and demonstrated that I could fly them well. It was the same thing with BI's and RI's. I asked to be accelerated and I don't think it was detrimental to me at all. As long as you approach Primary with the right attitude, prior time will help you. Rely on your prior experience to get you through and it'll be a rough ride.

 

[kmac]

It's a tough argument either way. I do know that we just had 3 students with a 59, 62, and 64 NSS finish up. The other students without flight time did not do as well. Is that statistically relevant? Absolutely not! We also had a student get attrited and he had well over 1,000 hours of flight time. There's no right answer on this one.

 

[Uncle Fester]

That's kind of what I was saying...I know that it's TTT and money uber alles when it comes to TRACOM production, but since there's no consistent, demonstrable benefit to doing it, and seems to trip up many studs who might have otherwise done well... why do we still do it?

(I know, I know...looking for logic in the Navy...rookie mistake for such a seasoned pro)

 

[GO_AV8_DevilDog]

I'm thinking that if it was me, (which it hopefully will be some day), I'd rather just take the extra flights than skip out on em.

Getting paid to fly anything is better than not, and from what it sounds like, it doesn't accelerate the training a whole lot anyways.

I'd just go with the flow, keep my mouth shut about my civi time, stay away from "well I learned it this way...isms", take the extra flights, and enjoy the extra time in TRACOM's with a few cold ones.


Course I could be off base here.