That might be the real answer behind the 19 year US Air FO!...not the merger. Oh and "Sully" is just another Shane Os........
-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
US AIRWAYS Crash in the Hudson River
- Thread starter foampositz
- Start date
Those poor Manhattanites were probably having 9/11 flashbacks when they saw that A320 so low.
You raise a very good point. In fact, USAirways procedures have the F/O flying the aircraft while the Capt. runs the ECAM in an engine-out emergency.
But of course there is no way yet to tell who was actually flying (probably the Capt. though in this extreme instance, despite the company procedure). Nevertheless, they were both obviously extremely busy - as a team - in the ditching. The F/O should at least get honorable mention, if not a lot more.
There was an unintentional ditching of a 727 in Pensacola, circa 1978. Acutally, all 52 survived but a women couldn't find her child and went back inside the aircraft to search. Two other people went to save her and all three drown after the fact.
zoomie08
Fast, Neat, Average...
That's what immediately struck me. The captain's airmanship skills and decision making was unbelievable. The way I see it, he had 3 options. 1)180* back to Laguardia. 2) Teterboro airport. 3) Ditch in the Hudson. I am willing to bet he went through the options in that order.
Redux
Well-Known Member
The guy was good and sorry not ALL drivers are created equally. As a former FE your job is to often watch and watch I did. Some pilots (my opinion) weren't worth a flying fuck, no pun intended.
Two stand out in my mine very well, both long since retired.
Pilot A. was GREAT on a standard day BUT when there was a problem be it weather or mechanical he came up short. A nervous fucking wreck and behind the airplane. I'll also point out that he was also one of my best friends off base, in the air we kept it completely professional. he was a ex Herc driver gone TAR and later went to FedEx upon retiring.
Pilot B. was a ex VRC 50 and 24 type guy until he went SAR and in Civlant he was one of Uniteds senior stretch 8 FE's. TONS of money and ours didn't spend on liberty RON's. He was "good" on the standard day nothing special BUT in an emergency he was without doubt the best I ever flew with. Engine out, none better, NEVER rattled. Rougher the engines, shittier the weather the better he greased it in. He was also always in front of the airplane, always contemplating what if's. He also hated auto feather, it was turned off as soon as we started to roll. Birds were his excuse even if there were none. (little things one remembers)
I probably flew with hundreds of different pilot/co pilot combinations but these two stand out for example. Again, like in everything else not all drivers are created equal.
Two stand out in my mine very well, both long since retired.
Pilot A. was GREAT on a standard day BUT when there was a problem be it weather or mechanical he came up short. A nervous fucking wreck and behind the airplane. I'll also point out that he was also one of my best friends off base, in the air we kept it completely professional. he was a ex Herc driver gone TAR and later went to FedEx upon retiring.
Pilot B. was a ex VRC 50 and 24 type guy until he went SAR and in Civlant he was one of Uniteds senior stretch 8 FE's. TONS of money and ours didn't spend on liberty RON's. He was "good" on the standard day nothing special BUT in an emergency he was without doubt the best I ever flew with. Engine out, none better, NEVER rattled. Rougher the engines, shittier the weather the better he greased it in. He was also always in front of the airplane, always contemplating what if's. He also hated auto feather, it was turned off as soon as we started to roll. Birds were his excuse even if there were none. (little things one remembers)
I probably flew with hundreds of different pilot/co pilot combinations but these two stand out for example. Again, like in everything else not all drivers are created equal.
I'm out of town on dial-up ... it's shit -- reliving the covered wagon days on the internet??
Before we get all goose-y and start carrying the crew around on our shoulders ... let's get some (all?? MOST?? ANY??) of the facts ... good is good, bad is bad, and that's why we don't speculate on aviation accidents until most of the post-mortems are in ...
They appear to have done a great job of airmanship ...
The CAPT was an F-4 driver ... I am gonna assume he is basically a good stick, as most were in my experience ...
The cabin crew appears to have done an OUTSTANDING job ...
We train for ditching ... it's a real possiblity and it involves more than "bend over and kiss your ass goodby" --NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER STOP, NEVER QUIT !!!
They had an enormous amount of "luck" ...
There's LOTS of birds in/around LAGarbage & JFK ...
The news media, eyewitnesses,and survivors usually get it "wrong" ...
A 23 year F/O w/U.S.Air is not shocking, given their horrible career progression of the past 15-20 years ... he could have even been a "terminal" F/O, having tried to move up in the past & failed ...
The guy who made the take-off is probably the one who drove it in ... not for certain, but it's likely ...
The glide ratio for most commercial jets is in the ballpark of 16-19 ... the WHALE was @ 18 ... the DC-10 was @ 17.5 ... the 3-holer was @ 16.5 ... yadda, yadda, yadda ... whoever reported "80" probably heard "18" and said "80" ... news media ... :sleep_125
The National crash in PCOLA Bay in 1978 was a fuck-up on the part of the crew ... there's a great (?) picture from the time that we hung in the airline "ready room" in DFW that was a head-on black/white shot showing the center nacelle sticking forlornly out of the water ... the caption penned in by someone was: "SECOND OFFICERS NOTE -- THIS IS THE ONLY TIME YOUR ON AND IN TIMES WILL BE THE SAME ... " Gallows humor, to be sure; but that's what pilots sometimes do and that's what was posted -- it stayed up for several weeks ...
Any competent, professional PILOT has the ability to be a Blue Angel or a plumber ... any given day. Let's hope when it's YOUR time, it's one of your "good" days ...
What happened in NYC was a friggin' miracle ... timing, chance, fate ... and there's that "I'd rather be LUCKY than GOOD any day ... " at work again ...
Dial-up ... OUT
Before we get all goose-y and start carrying the crew around on our shoulders ... let's get some (all?? MOST?? ANY??) of the facts ... good is good, bad is bad, and that's why we don't speculate on aviation accidents until most of the post-mortems are in ...
They appear to have done a great job of airmanship ...
The CAPT was an F-4 driver ... I am gonna assume he is basically a good stick, as most were in my experience ...
The cabin crew appears to have done an OUTSTANDING job ...
We train for ditching ... it's a real possiblity and it involves more than "bend over and kiss your ass goodby" --NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER STOP, NEVER QUIT !!!
They had an enormous amount of "luck" ...
There's LOTS of birds in/around LAGarbage & JFK ...
The news media, eyewitnesses,and survivors usually get it "wrong" ...
A 23 year F/O w/U.S.Air is not shocking, given their horrible career progression of the past 15-20 years ... he could have even been a "terminal" F/O, having tried to move up in the past & failed ...
The guy who made the take-off is probably the one who drove it in ... not for certain, but it's likely ...
The glide ratio for most commercial jets is in the ballpark of 16-19 ... the WHALE was @ 18 ... the DC-10 was @ 17.5 ... the 3-holer was @ 16.5 ... yadda, yadda, yadda ... whoever reported "80" probably heard "18" and said "80" ... news media ... :sleep_125
The National crash in PCOLA Bay in 1978 was a fuck-up on the part of the crew ... there's a great (?) picture from the time that we hung in the airline "ready room" in DFW that was a head-on black/white shot showing the center nacelle sticking forlornly out of the water ... the caption penned in by someone was: "SECOND OFFICERS NOTE -- THIS IS THE ONLY TIME YOUR ON AND IN TIMES WILL BE THE SAME ... " Gallows humor, to be sure; but that's what pilots sometimes do and that's what was posted -- it stayed up for several weeks ...
Any competent, professional PILOT has the ability to be a Blue Angel or a plumber ... any given day. Let's hope when it's YOUR time, it's one of your "good" days ...
What happened in NYC was a friggin' miracle ... timing, chance, fate ... and there's that "I'd rather be LUCKY than GOOD any day ... " at work again ...
Dial-up ... OUT
Got this in an e-mail today:
In the wake of the events of 1-15, in which a wedge of Geese brought down a US Airways aircraft, here's what you won't be hearing about from the so-called "Mainstream Media": We brought this on ourselves.
After an event such as this one, it's important to look at the root causes: Why did the Geese attack us? Well, the truth is, for years we have been oppressing the Geese, using them for the fuel they provide for our bodies.
Boneless Goose Breast, Brandied Roast Goose, Roast Goose with Cumberland Sauce and Apricot Stuffing. And of course, the Christmas Goose. In the name of religion, we have been engaged in what can only be called a Crusade against the Geese. Is it any wonder that a few brave suicide Geese would seek revenge?
Under the neocon/neofascist Cheney-Bush administration, Goose consumption is up 1541%. Geese have been systematically deprived of their rights at a level never seen before. (Look around your workplace: do you see any Geese? Wouldn't you be nervous if you did?) Reports of shameful anti-Goose activity are at an all-time high, mainly in the South and Midwest, of course.
The fact is, WE (and, of course, Israel) are responsible for the rise of militant Gooslam. Given our actions, is it any wonder that gaggles of Goslings would reject the teachings of moderate Goose leaders, when those leaders are perceived as being in the pocket of the West? Given our actions, is it any wonder that these young Gooslamists would flock to more assertive leaders, leaders whose commitment to their cause cannot be questioned? Given our actions, the rise of a "Goosama" was inevitable. We have only ourselves to blame. (Does anyone doubt that somewhere there's a photo of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with a Goose?)
In the moments right after 1-15, many have been quick to praise the actions of the US Airways pilot. But the TRUTH is that our pilots have been instruments of the BUSHITLER illegal war against the Geese. I know the Repuglicans will attack me for saying this, but speaking TRUTH TO POWER of course makes me a true PATRIOT. And very brave.
Right now America's relationship with other species couldn't be worse. Like most Americans, often when I'm hiking I find myself apologizing to woodland creatures for the actions of our illegitimate government. And like the rest of the world, I'm hopeful that once President Obama takes office, things will change, and that we will end our imperialistic attempts at hegemony over the rest of the planet. After all, if he can sit down with Iran and Hezbollah, he can sit down with the Geese.
In the wake of the events of 1-15, in which a wedge of Geese brought down a US Airways aircraft, here's what you won't be hearing about from the so-called "Mainstream Media": We brought this on ourselves.
After an event such as this one, it's important to look at the root causes: Why did the Geese attack us? Well, the truth is, for years we have been oppressing the Geese, using them for the fuel they provide for our bodies.
Boneless Goose Breast, Brandied Roast Goose, Roast Goose with Cumberland Sauce and Apricot Stuffing. And of course, the Christmas Goose. In the name of religion, we have been engaged in what can only be called a Crusade against the Geese. Is it any wonder that a few brave suicide Geese would seek revenge?
Under the neocon/neofascist Cheney-Bush administration, Goose consumption is up 1541%. Geese have been systematically deprived of their rights at a level never seen before. (Look around your workplace: do you see any Geese? Wouldn't you be nervous if you did?) Reports of shameful anti-Goose activity are at an all-time high, mainly in the South and Midwest, of course.
The fact is, WE (and, of course, Israel) are responsible for the rise of militant Gooslam. Given our actions, is it any wonder that gaggles of Goslings would reject the teachings of moderate Goose leaders, when those leaders are perceived as being in the pocket of the West? Given our actions, is it any wonder that these young Gooslamists would flock to more assertive leaders, leaders whose commitment to their cause cannot be questioned? Given our actions, the rise of a "Goosama" was inevitable. We have only ourselves to blame. (Does anyone doubt that somewhere there's a photo of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with a Goose?)
In the moments right after 1-15, many have been quick to praise the actions of the US Airways pilot. But the TRUTH is that our pilots have been instruments of the BUSHITLER illegal war against the Geese. I know the Repuglicans will attack me for saying this, but speaking TRUTH TO POWER of course makes me a true PATRIOT. And very brave.
Right now America's relationship with other species couldn't be worse. Like most Americans, often when I'm hiking I find myself apologizing to woodland creatures for the actions of our illegitimate government. And like the rest of the world, I'm hopeful that once President Obama takes office, things will change, and that we will end our imperialistic attempts at hegemony over the rest of the planet. After all, if he can sit down with Iran and Hezbollah, he can sit down with the Geese.
GroundPounder
Well-Known Member
A4’s
I would have thought that given the relatively long amount of time that transpired between the loss of power and the ditching that even if the Captain had not been the pilot flying that leg that he would have taken over. Is it pretty common in the airline world that if something goes south that the pilot flying that leg has it until the end?
Certainly not second guessing what happened in this event, just wondering what the norm is in the industry.
I would have thought that given the relatively long amount of time that transpired between the loss of power and the ditching that even if the Captain had not been the pilot flying that leg that he would have taken over. Is it pretty common in the airline world that if something goes south that the pilot flying that leg has it until the end?
Certainly not second guessing what happened in this event, just wondering what the norm is in the industry.
Found this funny...
As I said in my previous post, it was pilot/reporter Jon Scott on FOXNEWS that said that the 747 could glide 15 miles for every 1000' altitude. I did the math to come up with the 80:1 glide ratio. It was early in the event reporting and I'm sure he's been called on it several times by now... Talking heads trying to fill the space.
I have a good friend who is a UAL Airbus FO and suffered an IFE, smoke and fumes in the cockpit, last year. He was flying and UAL rules are whomever has the stick at the time flies the jet. Captain did all the FO duties and Brush got it in to the divert field.
At my airline the guy that takes off at the controls remains at the controls throughout the emergency, unless in the Captain's view the FO isn't up to it (and that caveat isn't even in writing, it just goes with Captain's authority). One guy flys and talks to ATC, the other works the problem. I believe that is most common these days. The reason is that both Capt and FO train to the same standards. One should not be significantly better then the other in simple stick and rudder stuff. I have never heard of an emergency where the Captain took the plane form an FO already flying. I am sure it has happened. But it is rare these days.
And for all those guys speculating on the time he had, glide ratios, attitude of the aircraft, etc. Bird FODs rarely result in an immediate total loss of power, until it is shut down by the crew that is.
As to the 23 year FO. A US AIR guy can roger up, but I believe that all original US AIR pilots were once Captains and had to role back to FO as the company got smaller and struggled to survive. If any FOs are to be screwed by the America West US Air merger, it will be AWA FOs at the behest of US AIR guys. There is no resolution at this juncture.
This statement sums it up best.