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Standby for more trouble with the airlines?

jorgelito said:
I did not know that. I figured Virgin Atlantic and some of the other new airlines flush with money would be good companies to work for. Like Emirates, Lufthansa, Singapore Airlines, But then again, I was basing that off my own travel experience. Most US carriers suck compared to the international airlines. I thought it wold be the same in terms of working with them.
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You're not alone in this view -- as the only thing most see is what's on YOUR side of the cockpit door, and that's how most of the traveling public "judges" an airline.

REPEAT AFTER ME:

*** What counts is what's on the OTHER side of the cockpit door. ***
I won't argue that inflight SERVICE is better on many foreign carriers -- I've ridden a lot of 'em -- but then again, their cabin staff is largely recruited, trained, and repeatedly indoctrinated to be subservient and service-oriented .... no matter what. And that's what YOU are seeing ... p.s. .... many think YOU'RE an asshole just because you're Western -- even though they "smile & bow" a lot .... :)

Different cultures, different upbringing, different life experiences .... on a couple of Oriental/Asian airlines that I will not mention -- even in this "enlightened age" -- the Captain "gets his pick" of the cabin staff on layovers. A totally different culture than what Westerners -- especially Americans ... have experienced.

Bottom line:

Who cares if the oshibori is nice and hot and the F/A smiles a lot -- if the pilot can't keep the jet on the runway on that X-wind landing ... ???

BELIEVE IT.


 
What really bothers me is the outsourcing of some maintenance with the airlines. That scares the hell out of me.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/2005-03-29-delta-cuts_x.htm
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In a new move to slash costs, Delta Air Lines said Tuesday that it will turn over more of its airplane maintenance to lower-cost outside contractors.
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Old news by any stretch but it affected jobs back then and then they discovered that oh low and behold that maintenance was terrible and they had to give it to the Delta guys to fix the problems.
 
HAL Pilot said:
jorgelito - I guess you like seeing American jobs outsourced to foreign countries.

Within the U.S., the idea is to create more opportunities for the American worker. Why should we supply foreign corporations more opportunities and displace our own workers within our borders?
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That's a bit presumptuous don't you think? Of course I don't like to see US jobs outsourced. I was merely commenting on the current airline industry situation. During the last airline shakeup, a bunch of airlines went under. And a bunch of new airlines emerged. It's called free market and competition.
 
A4sForever said:
You're not alone in this view -- as the only thing most see is what's on YOUR side of the cockpit door, and that's how most of the traveling public "judges" an airline.

REPEAT AFTER ME:

*** What counts is what's on the OTHER side of the cockpit door. ***
I won't argue that inflight SERVICE is better on many foreign carriers -- I've ridden a lot of 'em -- but then again, their cabin staff is largely recruited, trained, and repeatedly indoctrinated to be subservient and service-oriented .... no matter what. And that's what YOU are seeing ... p.s. .... many think YOU'RE an asshole just because you're Western -- even though they "smile & bow" a lot .... :)

Different cultures, different upbringing, different life experiences .... on a couple of Oriental/Asian airlines that I will not mention -- even in this "enlightened age" -- the Captain "gets his pick" of the cabin staff on layovers. A totally different culture than what Westerners -- especially Americans ... have experienced.

Bottom line:

Who cares if the oshibori is nice and hot and the F/A smiles a lot -- if the pilot can't keep the jet on the runway on that X-wind landing ... ???

BELIEVE IT.
Click to expand...
As a passenger, of course I see things from this side of the cockpit door and that's how we get to judge an airline as it were. Ground service matters too. That doesn't seem unreasonable.

On a side note, a lot of those pilots on foreign airlines are American. I think Singapore Airlines also has one of the best safety records.

Now if the Captain gets his pick of the cabin staff, then where do I sign up? :D
 
Southwest's fuel hedge does run out soon. Once that happens, they will be paying what the other airlines pay for jet-a, which is still considerably less than what GA pilots pay for jet ($5-$7/gal). Saw an article in the WSJ today about airlines in the Middle East that are flourishing. Qatar Airways, Etihad Airways and Emirates all are doing quite well. Surely in their oil-rich region fuel is much cheaper. Anyone know if that is correct? I do know that one of the previously mentioned airlines just sealed a 100-plane deal with Airbus and Boeing. What A4's said earlier is right. This is becoming a true national emergency and should be treated as such. As an aspiring pilot, I would hate to see my career field of choice go in the shitter for the next several years because of fuel and the state of the economy.
 
CBAs (collective bargaining agreements) may have been manipulated and/or carriers gone out of business but WE DO NOT WANT FOREIGN COMPANIES OWNING US COMPANIES! Below is about China's Airlines Threatening to Bankrupt Pilots Who Try to Quit! Similar but different but nonetheless related to some degree to the arguement presented!
July 11 (Bloomberg) -- Chen Jianguo quit his job as a pilot for Xiamen Airlines Co. after working 90 days straight. His employer demanded the equivalent of more than $1 million in compensation, and he's been banned from the cockpit ever since.
``The company has adopted all kinds of unfair methods to punish me,'' said Chen, 35. ``It's to give notice to their other pilots that the same thing could happen to them.''
China's largest carriers, including Air China Ltd., China Eastern Airlines Corp. and China Southern Airlines Co., are struggling to hang onto crews, enforcing lifetime contracts as they expand at a time when increasing demand for air travel is creating opportunities abroad. To protest their treatment, pilots have staged hunger strikes and turned flights around in mid-air.
``It's unrelated to reality, somewhat like slavery,'' said Gideon Ewers, a London-based spokesman for the International Federation of Air Line Pilots' Associations.
China, the world's second-largest market for air travel, is expected to expand its fleet by about 30 percent to 1,550 aircraft by 2010, according to the nation's aviation regulator. Bottlenecks at flight schools may leave a shortage of 2,000 pilots by that time, said Gao Hongfeng, vice director of the General Administration of Civil Aviation.
To prevent a bidding war for talent, the government issued a regulation in May 2006, allowing airlines to demand compensation for losing staff. Pilots are required to pay their employers 700,000 yuan ($102,300) to 2.1 million yuan if they quit.
``Everyone should follow the rules,'' said Chen Feng, the Harvard University-educated chairman of Grand China Air, the parent of Hainan Airlines, China's fourth-largest carrier. ``If someone insists on leaving, he should pay the price.''
Pilot Shortage
A 30 percent shortage of pilots may result in significant increases in staff costs for Chinese airlines this year and next, said Ally Ma, an analyst at Citigroup Inc. in Hong Kong. Ma rates Air China and China Southern ``sell,'' and has a ``hold'' rating on China Eastern.
Narrow profit margins limit the ability of airlines to raise salaries. China Eastern's operating profit margin was 0.7 percent last year, Air China's was 0.8 percent and China Southern's was 2.9 percent. That compares with 13.8 percent for Singapore Airlines Ltd. and 6.3 percent for Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd.
The rising cost of fuel is cutting those margins. The Chinese government, which sets domestic prices for jet fuel, has raised prices by 37 percent this year.
Compensation Demands
While airlines such as Emirates and India's Kingfisher Airlines Ltd. may recruit pilots from other countries, Chinese carriers are enforcing lifetime contracts to keep their flight crews at home.
In April, Shanghai Airlines sued nine pilots, asking for 35 million yuan after they resigned, according to the city's Jingan district court.
Zheng Zhihong, a former captain at China Eastern, was initially ordered to pay as much as 12.6 million yuan when he resigned last year. Zheng agreed to pay 1.4 million yuan in April after arbitration and hearings that lasted almost a year.
Chen's arbitration case has lasted so long he's now in a race to protect his flying privileges. He has been out of the cockpit since December 2006. His license will expire if he doesn't fly for two years.
``The airlines are trying to make the process long and difficult,'' Chen said. ``It's an alert or threat to their pilots on position.''
Aborted Flights
Gao Huiling, the official at Xiamen Airlines' legal department who is in charge of the case, declined to comment before another round of court hearings.
Arbitration for labor disputes should be solved within 90 days, according to court guidelines. Guan Qingyong, a director at the arbitration center in Xiamen, said he couldn't talk to the media about Chen's case.
Pilots are fighting back.
The pilots of 21 China Eastern flights from southeastern Yunnan province turned their planes around and returned to their departing airports on March 31 and April 1, the carrier said April 7. The airline punished 13 of the pilots. The government fined China Eastern 1.5 million yuan and gave some of its slots for flights to the region to Air China and China Southern.
It isn't the first time the airline has faced protests. As early as in 2006, six pilots went on a five-day hunger strike outside the carrier's headquarters in Shanghai. They called off the strike for health reasons.
Chen continues to fight his case through the courts.
At an arbitration hearing in Xiamen, the pilot sat on a stained sofa with migrant workers quarreling with their employers over sums of $100. Though he waited for two hours for his case to be heard, Chen said the principal was worth the struggle.
``No matter how much I earn, I should have the basic right to quit or give up the earnings,'' Chen said.
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mtsupilot09 said:
Southwest's fuel hedge does run out soon. Once that happens, they will be paying what the other airlines pay for jet-a, which is still considerably less than what GA pilots pay for jet ($5-$7/gal). Saw an article in the WSJ today about airlines in the Middle East that are flourishing. Qatar Airways, Etihad Airways and Emirates all are doing quite well. Surely in their oil-rich region fuel is much cheaper. Anyone know if that is correct? I do know that one of the previously mentioned airlines just sealed a 100-plane deal with Airbus and Boeing. What A4's said earlier is right. This is becoming a true national emergency and should be treated as such. As an aspiring pilot, I would hate to see my career field of choice go in the shitter for the next several years because of fuel and the state of the economy.
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Again, I heard that from a airline pilot buddy about 3 years ago......and yet they are still chugging along with them. I guess it pays to plan ahead.
 
Here's a good discussion on the hedge:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/3726592/

For those that are illiterate above the 8th grade level and need a simple chart from the above article:

1129-biz-webHEDGE.jpg


Those numbers are current as of November and have probably changed since then (except for United who appears asleep at the wheel.)
 
Hell yeah they're doing it right. Southwest has been profitable almost every year it's been in business. Most of their employees love working there, and the pilots love flying for them. The mechanics only have to go to one school to learn how to work on the entire fleet (strictly 737's). Their business model and management strategy is phenomenally strong. I'm a huge fan of SW. My roommate's dad is one of their senior captains. He went from flying F4's in the AF to driving 737's and making quite a bit more money to boot. No other major American airline can touch their level of customer loyalty and performance.
 
mtsupilot09 said:
No other major American airline can touch their level of customer loyalty and performance.
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Customer loyalty in the airline industry has more to do with pricing than anything else these days. Service is nonexistent among the US carriers. Perhaps SWA's "loyal customers" come from it being one of the cheapest, or best value if you will, airlines to fly one from Point A to Point B.

But to add to what you've said--I've heard nothing but good things about SWA.
 
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