Airline Musings ... *thread split*

[Single Seat]

Yet another reason we aren't the USAF.

I really can't see it happening. Seems like there has been quite alot of resistance and teeth grinding about eliminating syllabus flights here at -30 for the Level D's. I can certainly see many reduced flight events, but I gotta throw the BS flag on an all Level D syllabus.

Why? It's SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper and the training isn't exactly low quality. Most airline pilots never touch the model jet the fly, until it's got 200 passengers in the back. Everything is level D up to that point. There are no FAM flights or Touch and Go hops. Granted I don't know anything about the "tactical" flying, so I could see doing that stuff in the jet, but as much as everyone kicks and screams, the all mighty dollar will prevail.

The downward spiral to Air Forceism is already underway. It's creeping it's head up everywhere. It's like playing whack-a-mole.

 

[wink]

Level D sims are just awesome. The training value is significantly increased hour for hour. I could see doing all the standard air work, essential the equivalent of the B737 rating, then going to the aircraft for the tactical stuff (did I just say "tactical" wrt VP ). Someone tell me about what percent of syllabus flight time that would be.

 

[A4sForever]

.... Most airline pilots never touch the model jet the fly, until it's got 200 passengers in the back. Everything is level D up to that point. There are no FAM flights or Touch and Go hops.....

Not true, younger Bruddah -- got 'em and gave 'em @ 3 airlines. We'd load the airplane up w/ 10 guys sometimes and hotseat.

Beaucoup pilot trainers.

 

[Single Seat]

Not true, younger Bruddah -- got 'em and gave 'em @ 3 airlines. We'd load the airplane up w/ 10 guys sometimes and hotseat.

Beaucoup pilot trainers.

I can tell you first point five hand your old employer ain't doing that anymore. Think mgmt is gonna fork over the cash for gas?

 

[HAL Pilot]

I will say that my first 727 and 717 flights were with pax.

In fact, talking with our Chief Pilot, one of the criteria when setting hiring minimums is having enough multi and total time so that we can 100% train a new guy with no turbine experience (read that to mean current Hawaiian pilot kids) in the level C sim for the 767. Anything less then the new minimum (1500/500 multi) and we would have to do a training flight (short one with one approach and landing) in the aircraft and he said "no way are we paying for that". 717 is level D and he said it takes lower times for 100% sim training but we had to go with the worst case.

 

[A4sForever]

I can tell you first point five hand your old employer ain't doing that anymore. Think mgmt is gonna fork over the cash for gas?

I'm sure the situation is "evolving" with the ebb and flow of oil prices at the wellhead --- but I'm also pretty sure that an initial CAPT checkout/type on a widebody still requires 3 T&G's ... who cares about narrow body domestics??? Those jets are for kids.

I shall return. After I check it out.

It's always about $$$$ in the end -- not safety -- safety as the airlines and government would have the traveling, bleating class believe. :icon_wink

 

[PropStop]

717 is level D and he said it takes lower times for 100% sim training but we had to go with the worst case.

//threadjack//

How hard and fast are the minimum hour requirements in the airlines? Will they flat not look at you if you've got fewer hours than they advertise as their requirement?

Also, do the airlines care about a masters (in something completely unrelated to aviation)?

//please return to your normal thread//

 

[Single Seat]

I'm sure the situation is "evolving" with the ebb and flow of oil prices at the wellhead --- but I'm also pretty sure that an initial CAPT checkout/type on a widebody still requires 3 T&G's ... who cares about narrow body domestics??? Those jets are for kids.

I shall return. After I check it out.

It's always about $$$$ in the end -- not safety -- safety as the airlines and government would have the traveling, bleating class believe. :icon_wink

You can't just knock out the touch & go's on your first leg? Ha, I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the cabin for that.


WRT to hiring Mins I know NWA's Pinnacle was petitioning the FAA to allow guys under 23 to get their ATP, the chief pilot was dead set against it, and was "let go."

1500/500 are pretty low mins there HAL, they still the mins?

 

[A4sForever]

//threadjack//

1. How hard and fast are the minimum hour requirements in the airlines?
2. Will they flat not look at you if you've got fewer hours than they advertise as their requirement?
3. do the airlines care about a masters (in something completely unrelated to aviation)?

//please return to your normal thread//

1. Hard & fast "minimums" are hard & fast unless there's not enough warm bodies in the available hiring pool. Then they lower the standards, or pay less -- which has the same net effect. "Who you know" doesn't work too well anymore w/ regards to getting interviewed/hired in these days of EEOC guidelines ... :sleep_125There's still some airlines that have a "blackball" list -- it's just held very close to the vest.

2. Your application will get looked at and filed as "not qualified". It will be in the bottom half of the 5 foot pile (literally saw one like that) -- keep updating w/ the airline as that provides an "excuse" to have them revisit your application as new time/quals come in and you submit them.

3. They don't care about your education. Just make the minimums and they're "happy". They only pretend to care ... they don't want their pilots to be "too" smart ....

 

[FrankTheTank]

an initial CAPT checkout/type on a widebody still requires 3 T&G's

NOT here... We don't have passengers (well.. Sometimes a few jumpseaters) but Captain/FO's first landings out of the sim is on a revenue flight (usually second leg of IOE).. Shit T&Gos would be awesome because contractual we get paid for extra landings that are not in the bid pack (as long as they are not due to maint, wx or crew decision) $$$

 

[A4sForever]

We don't have passengers (well.. Sometimes a few jumpseaters)

I assume jumpseaters out of MELVIS are still prohibited from carrying spearguns?

 

[FrankTheTank]

I assume jumpseaters out of MELVIS are still prohibited from carrying spearguns?

We have gotten so anal with jumpseats it is absurb (no more golf clubs either, unless they are thrown in the bulk compartment which is not a big deal but a pain).. We now have 'Boarding Passes'... Also lately with all the new CASS stuff, have seen a very large bunch of offline jumpseaters..

 

[A4sForever]

.... Shit T&Gos would be awesome...

And they were, too. Trainers were a LOT of fun -- they gave you an opportunity to really honk those big girls around. We'd go to Sioux Falls or Moses Lake and if the winds were light and the pattern was ours -- we'd just set up a "figure 8" racetrack pattern and keep bangin' 'em out. Lots of instructor "training" was accomplished as well ....

It must have been quite the sight as the JAL or All Nippon Dawn Patrol crews manned up, I imagine -- much hissing and "ahhhhh -sooooo'ing" as they viewed that big ol' Yankee WHALE wrapped up in the inbound turn @ 45 degrees, <1000' AGL, silhouetted against the "rising sunrise" icon_wink) ... back-and-forth, round-and-round .... good times.

 

[HAL Pilot]

1500/500 are pretty low mins there HAL, they still the mins?

Yes, along with a bunch of letters of recommendation or a parent that's a Hawaiian pilot.

We're a very incestuous pilot group. If we raised the mins, it would delay our kids getting their pilot seat......

 

[Single Seat]

Will you be my dad?