I've heard you don't get kicked out at the acadamies for your first offence, is there any truth to that?
As was mentioned earlier, the punishments are more severe the higher ranking you are. We had a bunch of briefs showing statistics of honor offenses and out honor system this year; the Honor Officer really knows his stuff... In years past, it was noticed that when people were basically just getting kicked out for every little honor offense, less were officially reported, but I forget what it was, but there was evidence to suggest that offense occurred at similar rates as when remediation was more of an option. When remediation was more of a viable option, many more were willing to come forward to report. I think they've touted the small success of the increase in percentage of honor offenses being reported by MIDN (as opposed to officers/faculty) than in past years recently, meaning, we're holding each other more accountable.
In terms of punishments, it is certainly not unheard of for separation/being kicked out. However, there is certainly a strong emphasis on remediation as well. There are 3 options for Mids here to deal with Honor. The first is to just report, the second is to confront and then report, and the final is to confront and remediate, and you still have the option to report;
the thing is that you must do at least one of these options.
For example, there's a plebe in my company who lied to me some 2 weeks back. I confronted him about it and he eventually came clean and you could tell he felt like he was beaten down and kicked in the nuts. We had some pretty deep and serious discussion about how what he did was absolutely wrong and unnacceptable and after that I let him know I was reporting him to our Company Honor Advisor (a Midn 1/C; MIDN LTJG/"2 Striper") in order for him to have more remediation than I could possible provide in company, but in the mean time I told him to find an article about how a dishonorable act has recently caused problems for the military. I gave him an example of how a sub crew gundecked logs and forms that they did some checks on their fins (fair-planes? The actual name is slipping fromy my mind... please correct me someone) and they eventually rusted through inside out. The problem was discovered when the sub tried to surface and couldn't get above 300 ft under the water.
The reason I did this was because he's a plebe, who I knew was tired as hell and when he committed the act was likely just not thinking and this all came out as expected during discussion and remediation. He came clean and admitted his guilt instead of giving excuses pretty quickly. I know he wants to be a SEAL and I think there is ample time to make sure he understands the importance of honor. Plus, there is documentation that can be used if he commits another honor offense in the future, and he'll get crucified for it in the future if he acts dishonorably again.
Our Honor Court too, is entirely MIDN run, but there is an officer who watches the case as well as a JAG. Punishments are approved by the Commandant, an O-6 and range from anything and everything including Honor Restriction, Probation, Separation, Remediation with an officer, giving presentations about honor, and usually it is a combination of many of these things and whatever else the board can come up with. They do, however, certainly look at the entire MIDN, including Academic and Physical performance and extenuating circumstances when creating the punishment. Something else to note is that there are varying level of Honor Boards/Courts, from as low as the company level to as high as the Regimental/Brigade level and cases can be forwarded to a higher level when deemed necessary. You guilt is voted on by a panel of your peers and ranks above and based on a preponderance of evidence -- as in, if the person feels that anything more than 50% of the evidence supports guilt they are obliged to vote guilty, otherwise not guilty.
A distinction between Navy and Air Force and Army's is that while they have a code, similar to something like "do not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do," we have a "Concept" and a Treatise, with the Treatise being focused on what to do and not what to do. Note on the concept it stands for ensuring that the full truth is known at all times and that very first line is pretty powerful too:
The Honor Concept:
"Midshipmen are persons of integrity: They stand for that which is right.
They tell the truth and ensure that the full truth is known. They do not lie.
They embrace fairness in all actions. They ensure that work submitted as their own is their own, and that assistance received from any source is authorized and properly documented. They do not cheat.
They respect the property of others and ensure that others are able to benefit from the use of their own property. They do not steal."
The Honor Treatise:
"As a Brigade we cherish the diverse backgrounds and talents of every midshipmen yet recognize the common thread that unites us: the trust and confidence of the American people. They have appointed us to defend our country by developing our minds, our bodies, and most especially, our moral character.
It is our responsibility to develop a selfless sense of duty that demands excellence both of ourselves and of those with whom we serve. We must honor our loyalties without compromising our ultimate obligation to the truth. Our leadership must set a standard that reflects loyalty to our goals and the courage to stand accountable for all our actions, both those that lead to success and to those that end in failure. We will never settle for achieving merely what is expected of us but will strive for a standard of excellence that reflects the dedication and courage of those who have gone before us. When we attain our goal, we will raise our expectations; when we fall short, we will rise up and try again. In essence, we espouse leadership by example, a leadership that will inspire others to follow wherever we may lead.
Countless challenges and trials lie before us. We believe that those with the strongest moral foundation will be the leaders who best reflect the legacy of the Naval Academy. This is our call as midshipmen: it is a mission we proudly accept."
Really appreciate everyone's answers. Is there a specific reason why VMI's drum-out is 0333? Is there some sort of significance to that?
