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The Great Universal Health Care Debate w/Poll (note: it just passed both houses)

Are you in favor of Universal Health Care?

  • Yes, having the state take care of all my needs is great.. No responsiblilty! Whee!

    Votes: 10 4.5%

  • Yes, its not going to cause the USA to be a socialist nation and would be better than the current.

    Votes: 36 16.3%

  • Where in the constitution does it say we have to do this?

    Votes: 54 24.4%

  • This is communist. I'll shiv whoever passes it (special option for SOG)

    Votes: 74 33.5%

  • Good idea, but the govt will screw it up and cost too much.

    Votes: 47 21.3%
  • Total voters
    221
Flash said:
Requiring someone to buy insurance is not the same dictating what someone does to their body, just what they have to purchase. How does that affect one bodily, other than lightening your wallet?
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OK, fair enough. However, they're still overstepping their bounds. I mean, if this survives the courts, then the Federal government can dictate that you purchase what they want you to purchase, as long as it's what they think you need.

Flash said:
Meeting federal requirements will not be difficult for almost all insurance plans, including TRICARE, just some paperwork. I don't think your supposed worry is a realistic one.
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Spoken like someone that hasn't actually READ any of the bill. Let's see, I'm a 36 year old male, with no kids - and part of the requirements are for maternal/prenatal care. I guess that "paperwork" you speak of turns me into a woman with kids. My fears are founded because I have an inherent distrust of the Federal government, whereas you think they're always operating in our best interest. There is NOTHING in the current law that states explicitly that we can keep our current plan, that's up to them to decide.

Flash said:
You are paying for only part of it, actually very little to none if you are still in TRICARE, and the government and insurance pays the rest. And hey, maybe they are smarter than you.......
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I'm either going to pay for more, or pay higher premiums to make up for those that can't afford it. The President himself said premiums would rise. I highly doubt they're smarter than I am. Some of them probably are, but not all of them. More arrogant? All of them.

Flash said:
As for Christian Scientists and others like them, they can pay the fine and go on with their business as long as it does not violate other laws. Big deal.
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Fined for their beliefs. You don't see a problem with that?
 
phrogpilot73 said:
Actually, it is a sound argument. No, I don't have to accept treatment. However, if I CHOOSE not to accept treatment, why would I be MANDATED to maintain coverage - after all the Feds aren't paying for it, I am. Oh, that's right - it's for the greater good. Democrats are smarter than I am anyway, at least that's the way they act.
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Mandated medical coverage began as a Republican idea, not a Democratic one.

Also, are folks required to participate in Social Security in this country? Has that been successfully challenged in the Supreme Court(I would use Google-fu, but am using a computer w/ a SLOOOOOW connection in a hotel).
 
phrogpilot73 said:
OK, fair enough. However, they're still overstepping their bounds. I mean, if this survives the courts, then the Federal government can dictate that you purchase what they want you to purchase, as long as it's what they think you need.
Click to expand...

Much like it dictates that all males sign up for the Selective Service, that you pay taxes on things that you don't use and pay into Social Security.

phrogpilot73 said:
Spoken like someone that hasn't actually READ any of the bill. Let's see, I'm a 36 year old male, with no kids - and part of the requirements are for maternal/prenatal care. I guess that "paperwork" you speak of turns me into a woman with kids.
Click to expand...

I perused it and noted the Essential Health Benefits, which includes the basics in most insurance plans in existence here in the US now, including TRICARE. So in reality it doesn't really change much, especially in your case.

phrogpilot73 said:
My fears are founded because I have an inherent distrust of the Federal government, whereas you think they're always operating in our best interest. There is NOTHING in the current law that states explicitly that we can keep our current plan, that's up to them to decide.
Click to expand...

I don't think that government is always operating in our best interest, remember that I work for it. I just don't have an inherent mistrust of it, they are not out to get me, you on the other hand.......Either way, while it does not explicitly say as much you can be certain your TRICARE will still be there.

phrogpilot73 said:
I'm either going to pay for more, or pay higher premiums to make up for those that can't afford it. The President himself said premiums would rise. I highly doubt they're smarter than I am. Some of them probably are, but not all of them. More arrogant? All of them.
Click to expand...

Well you don't pay any premiums right now if you are under TRICARE so it is kind of a moot point with you. Premiums will rise but they have been rising well above inflation for years, this is supposed to bring that under some control. One thing that you have to keep in mind too is that health care is not entirely funded by insurance premiums or government health programs, much of the burden is on health care providers and general state funds that pays for care for those who cannot or will not pay right now. Those costs are now passed down to us through higher health care provider fees and taxes. Who do you think pays for the trauma care for the idiot motorcyclist that busts his head open doing stunts, and has no insurance to pay for it. Requiring him to get insurance or pay a fine ensures that he would help pay for his costs, instead of you and I shouldering the entire cost now. That is where the supposed saving would come in.

phrogpilot73 said:
Fined for their beliefs. You don't see a problem with that?
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And sometimes they are jailed for their beliefs too, as are others. What was that about actually reading the law though? Pretty sure it provides for religious exemptions under the EXEMPTIONS FROM INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY REQUIREMENTS section.
 
Here’s a decent timeline of what HCR will bring about over the next few years as it is implemented… CNN article

I tend to agree with Brett's statement. What's the point of me working my ass off when I can do the minimal and have the government take care of me.

I wonder how adding another 37 million+ people to the health care system is going to affect overall care. I saw no incentive to "make" more doc’s and nurses.

It's comical that this bill adds a 10% tax increase on the tanning business but no extra taxes on smokes, booze, fast food, junk food or other “bad habits”. Frivolous lawsuits against doc’s & hospitals should have also been a part of the bill. Looks to me like the tanning industry should have spent more on lobbying.

SF
 
Flash said:
Well you don't pay any premiums right now if you are under TRICARE so it is kind of a moot point with you.
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I don't feel like debating this anymore, because you won't change my opinion, nor will I change yours.

However, this statement of yours is incorrect. I am a reservist. I am covered by TRICARE through my wife, and it depends on whether you select Prime, Standard, or Extra whether you pay a premium or not. Also, if I was under TRICARE Reserve Select, there are premiums as well.
 
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0310/032110kp1.htm

GOVERNMENT EXECUTIVE

House votes to exempt TRICARE from health reform bill
By Katherine McIntire Peters kpeters@govexec.com
March 21, 2010

House lawmakers over the weekend voted to protect TRICARE and Defense
non-appropriated fund health care beneficiaries from unintended consequences
of national health reform.

The exemption (H.R. 4887) applies to the health care coverage provided by
the Defense Department to military service members, retirees and their
families. It clarifies the tax code to stipulate that coverage provided by
Defense is treated as minimal essential coverage, ensuring that service
members and their families will not need to purchase additional coverage to
meet new health insurance requirements.

The legislation was introduced late Friday by Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Mo.,
chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. The full House approved it
by a vote of 403-0 on Saturday afternoon.

Skelton opposed the health reform bill and planned to vote against it
Sunday. In a floor speech Saturday, he acknowledged that the bill under
consideration in Congress was unlikely to have any negative effect on
military personnel or their dependents.

"However, to reassure our military service members and their families and
make it perfectly clear that they will not be negatively affected by this
legislation, my bill, H.R. 4887, explicitly states in law that these health
plans meet the minimum requirements for individual health insurance."

Copyright 2010 TGE
 
Random8145 said:
IMO this bill will bankrupt the nation. Stand by for a VAT tax soon when it becomes apparent how much of a hole this blows in the budget.

This was interesting I thought: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/03/is_obamacare_headed_for_a_supr.html
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But, but...Obama said it will reduce the deficit by 100 billion. Something about spending 3 trillion saves us 100 billion just doesn't add up. My degree isn't in economics, but it was engineering and the math does seem fishy on this one.

Did you catch the interview where Nancy Pelosi was saying this was "our generation's medicaid and social security?" Two bankrupt programs, so what's one more flame in the fire? This thing will not end well or be run effectively. (read the sig)
 
How will this plan affect the typical Doctor/Patient relationship? Docs will hire more PA's and NP's to see you. (PA- Physician Assistants and NP's- Nurse Practitioners) will be happy to see you. There is already a shortage and decline in family practice physicians numbers here in the US. Why is this shortage occurring? For years now Medicaid and Medicare have annually reduced the reimbursement amounts for rendered services. In other words the pay in family practice is poor as compared to specialists. In fact the declining numbers would be worse if it weren't for all foreign med school docs coming here to the states to practice.

When you already have low reimbursement rates with lots of additional patients- you don't/won't get to see an actual MD. You will likely get to see a NP or PA with a Masters Degree level of knowledge. Oh yeah here's the bad news- Now keep in mind that the Doc is on the PA's and NP's asses to get his/her patient per hour rate up as the gross number of reimbursements are what keeps that office open, so expect to only discuss ONE ailment/concern per visit. Of course the days of getting a same or next day appt. will be a thing of the past soon. Unless you decide to go to these new "Community Clinics" for the masses. Maybe they'll put internet cafe's or Starbucks at these clinics to help you pass the time while waiting. Free preventive care? Sorry- Someone WILL pay the bill and the patient will pay with their personal time.

Oh yes - now the good news. Now that the airlines are going to have less demand for your "skills", soon you can have a new career opportunity. You can go back to school for a PA or NP masters degree. I'm sure the Gov will help out with the student loans for this- I mean heck- it was their idea right? And then you will pay those loans off with your enormous $80K a year salary. (PA's and NP's generally aren't offered partnerships in most medical practices.)

This is an epic mis step by our leadership. Unfortunately after all the state lawsuits are over, it'll probably still happen. Welcome to socialized medicine.

Or you can avoid this mess and stay in the NAVY forever!
 
jtmedli said:
But, but...Obama said it will reduce the deficit by 100 billion. Something about spending 3 trillion saves us 100 billion just doesn't add up. My degree isn't in economics, but it was engineering and the math does seem fishy on this one.

Did you catch the interview where Nancy Pelosi was saying this was "our generation's medicaid and social security?" Two bankrupt programs, so what's one more flame in the fire? This thing will not end well or be run effectively. (read the sig)
Click to expand...

Barack Obama also said he copied some of the aspects of Mitt Romney's healthcare system for his healthcare program. So he's inadverdently saying based his program off of a failed healthcare system.
 
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