The Great Universal Health Care Debate w/Poll (note: it just passed both houses)

[thull]

there's 18 pages of posts, so forgive me for not reading through to see if anyone else mentioned this...But I like Obama's idea of universally AFFORDABLE health care. Not saying I'm for him or against him or whatever, but that idea makes sense to me, moreso than mandated universal health care.

 

[Harrier Dude]

there's 18 pages of posts, so forgive me for not reading through to see if anyone else mentioned this...But I like Obama's idea of universally AFFORDABLE health care. Not saying I'm for him or against him or whatever, but that idea makes sense to me, moreso than mandated universal health care.

Like nearly everything else that Senator Obama says, it does indeed sound fantastic. But like most if not all if his other musings......how are we going to get there from here?

I think that everybody is in favor of a peaceful world with no poverty and affordable high quality healthcare, housing, food, education, and everything else. Who would be against that? What matters is how those goals are attained.

While we're at it, FREE BEER FOR EVERYONE!!!!

 

[raptor10]

Like nearly everything else that Senator Obama says, it does indeed sound fantastic. But like most if not all if his other musings......how are we going to get there from here?

I think that everybody is in favor of a peaceful world with no poverty and affordable high quality healthcare, housing, food, education, and everything else. Who would be against that? What matters is how those goals are attained.

While we're at it, FREE BEER FOR EVERYONE!!!!

Reminds me of what one of my (non party affiliated) friends said when asked what she thought of President Bush: "Nice job on privatized social security... NOT!"

 

[Harrier Dude]

Reminds me of what one of my (non party affiliated) friends said when asked what she thought of President Bush: "Nice job on privatized social security... NOT!"

There is, however, a difference between having a plan that will work, yet not being allowed to implement it, and not having a plan that will work at all. Subtle, perhaps, but a difference nonetheless.

 

[raptor10]

There is, however, a difference between having a plan that will work, yet not being allowed to implement it, and not having a plan that will work at all. Subtle, perhaps, but a difference nonetheless.

True, you'd have to have both a Republican Congress and a Republican President to push through privatized social security... oh wait...

 

[Harrier Dude]

Just because the president has a party majority in congress does not mean that he gets to do whatever he wants. Especially on a hot-button political issue like social security. The point is that he had a plan that made sense mathmatically. Debating whether ot not it was fair/safe/constitutional is a whole different issue, and one that many members of his own party did not agree.

My point is that it's easy to just say that you want something.

"I want World Peace!"
"I want to end poverty in America!"
"I want to eliminate the national debt!"


Yeah......so do I. So does everybody else. What's the plan? How are we going to do it?

By the way, I'm not bashing Senator Obama. We can probably agree that this is a common problem with politicians and an uninformed electorate of folks who are are so desperate to believe in something noble that they don't care if it ever happens. Just that somebody cares about it.

Hope is great, it just isn't enough in and of itself.

 

[Random8145]

How do you know this? Did you see it on a news report? Maybe the Drudge Report? Any empirical data? My wife knows no one who has done so. I am sure it happens, but probably I am certain it happens a lot less than you think. There are problems with Canadian health care to be sure, but on the whole it works quite well, as the statistics I have cited show......

Chappelle, he's a genius.......

http://www.ncpa.org/iss/hea/2003/pd101703b.html - well according to this, which was written by the New York Times (definitely not a lover of capitalism), Canadian doctors are moving to America because they do not like the Canadian healthcare system.

http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=3443 - this gives some information regarding Canadians coming to America for care and also talks about problems with the Canadian system not being able to provide patients with care who need it.

Also, I believe one reason Canadians can get prescription drugs cheaper in Canada is because their drug companies mostly just manufacture the drugs researched and created by American drug companies. America accounts for about 50% of all drug research in the world. This causes them to have to charge more for their drugs, because they actually research and create them, whereas the companies of Canada just take that research and manufacture new drugs, which they can sell cheaper.

I do not believe the Canadian healthcare system is sustainable, because no socialized system is, and I do not believe it is morally right, because it outlaws private care (though I believe doctors can set up private practices in some form there) and socialized care infringes on the rights of medical professionals and individuals.

http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/ailing.html - this article says that Canada's system works fine for minor problems, but for other stuff it is failing.

http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/looms.html - here the President of the B.C. Medical Association (I am guessing British Columbia) says that Canada's healthcare system is "five to ten years from the breaking point."

He doesn't say Canada should adopt the American system, but that Canada has to acknowledge the problems with its system.

http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/socialized.html - here is a site with a bunch of links (including the above).

 

[Spekkio]

Also, I believe one reason Canadians can get prescription drugs cheaper in Canada is because their drug companies mostly just manufacture the drugs researched and created by American drug companies. America accounts for about 50% of all drug research in the world. This causes them to have to charge more for their drugs, because they actually research and create them, whereas the companies of Canada just take that research and manufacture new drugs, which they can sell cheaper.

Did you just ignore everything I said. Even if your hypthesis about Canadian drug companies just copying our companies' formulas is correct, that would still only shave off 13%.

You can't argue for a free market healthcare system and then get all protectionist for drug companies. Well, apparently you can if you're a Republican in Congress.

 

[Random8145]

Good point, this is a confusing subject! I am a huge supporter of free-trade, so this is interesting.

 

[sodajones]

Senate Health Care Bill Fines People Refusing Coverage

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090702/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul

 

[desertoasis]

And this has what, exactly, to do with aviation?

 

[sodajones]

And this has what, exactly, to do with aviation?

Don't be a troll, it has as much to do with aviation as Whale Wars, Transformers, Sarah Palin, and NYC hotspots.

Just thought the happenings of our government would be of interest.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

And this has what, exactly, to do with aviation?

SA Below

War Zone This is the catch all forum for any discussion the members of this site want to discuss. If the post is not in keeping with the site, or does not contribute to a discussion, then expect it to be deleted and for you to be ridiculed. All users are encouraged to post in this forum, though turtl3 is prohibited from starting ANY and all threads.

 

[desertoasis]

Don't be a troll, it has as much to do with aviation as Whale Wars, Transformers, Sarah Palin, and NYC hotspots.

Just thought the happenings of our government would be of interest.

Threads have been locked for less. Negative rep wasn't necessary.

 

[Sly1978]

Interesting article. desertoasis: you're right, it has nothing to do with aviation, but really dude before you go and be a douchebag look at the other posts on here. I'd say that about 50% are in no way directly related to Naval Aviation. I don't know who gave the negative rep, but you deserved it.