jon_yelverton
Registered User
so i want to go aircrew. i'm an AE right now, with only a few months in rate. is it true i have to be an AE for two years before i can go AW? if so, does anybody know the pub thats from?
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aircrew
- Thread starter jon_yelverton
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Stubby
Ask the Chief
Talking to your Command Career Counselor is definately the right answer.
In the meantime, here is the MILPERSMAN outlining the Naval Aircrewman Program.
http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/milpers/1220-010.htm
I'd have to agree with scarnuts, aircrew is one of the best jobs in the Navy. Good luck!
In the meantime, here is the MILPERSMAN outlining the Naval Aircrewman Program.
http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/milpers/1220-010.htm
I'd have to agree with scarnuts, aircrew is one of the best jobs in the Navy. Good luck!
One option other than FE for AE's is to fly in EP-3's, we had no AW's. All of our mission crew were CT's, AE's and AT's.
Stubby
Ask the Chief
The AW rating is in the process of a merger with all aviation aircrew rates. On P-3's AW's in the rate now will be known as AWO's, the IFTs will be AWV's and the FE's will be known as AWF's. If you are new in your current rate you will probably not be allowed to straight convert to AW (or AWO), but will apply in your current rate and then fall into the merger as it applies to you.....
The AW rating is in the process of a merger with all aviation aircrew rates. On P-3's AW's in the rate now will be known as AWO's, the IFTs will be AWV's and the FE's will be known as AWF's. If you are new in your current rate you will probably not be allowed to straight convert to AW (or AWO), but will apply in your current rate and then fall into the merger as it applies to you.....
Will the Vs and Fs still work in their shops, or will they go more to what the current AW shop tends to look like?
Brett
Stubby
Ask the Chief
The V's and F's will work in dedicated IFT and FE shops rather than AE, AT, AM, etc. This is how VP used to be years ago. Soon, when V's and F's come in as initial accessions, they will not go to AT, AE, AM class (A) schools, but specific AWV/AWF (A) schools. These will be more aircrew specific, vise turning wrenches, with a more generalized maintenance overview. When MMA comes on line, the FE's and IFT's will be phased out of VP.
We actually have a couple of AWF's training in the FRS now. They were originally helo crewmen. The merger of helo crewman into the AW rate is complete.
The C-2 community is working on the AW conversion too. All our aircrew are going to transition from AT/AE/AD/AM/AME, etc to just AW. I haven't heard about AWV/AWF, etc yet though. From my understanding the AW's in the C-2 community will do some time in each shop to become familiar as a jack of all trades on the road tech.
Of course the transition has been delayed a few times already, but as of now it will go down in April.
Of course the transition has been delayed a few times already, but as of now it will go down in April.
Do they plan on making these guys full systems CDI/CDQARs? There was a lot of that in the LAMPS community because of the det concept.
Brett
bluemarlin04
Well-Known Member
you have any more info on this chief? I just graduated aircrew school and am in ATo school now. We were told when we graduated all enlisted aircrew will now be AWs. Will they just merge us techs into v's and f's?
AW rating
Quote:
"The AW rating will officially be called "Naval Aircrewman"
The old rating name will go away. All aircrewman are going to be "AW's"
Depending on what job you do depends on what "stovepipe" you belong in.
FE's will be in the AWF stovepipe. As in any other rate, we will continue to dominate them. No one wants to be an "AW" but, if you still want to fly, you will have to convert. We will not compete against your normal acoustic and non-acoustic AW's, only those in your stovepipe. All E-6 and below will automatically be converted unless they sign their page, as stated above, E-7 and above will have to request it. It sucks but thats the way the Navy is going with this and we have to be onboard".
Courtesy of
AEC(NAC/AW) C. Brown
Flight Engineer track manager
VP-30
Quote:
"The AW rating will officially be called "Naval Aircrewman"
The old rating name will go away. All aircrewman are going to be "AW's"
Depending on what job you do depends on what "stovepipe" you belong in.
FE's will be in the AWF stovepipe. As in any other rate, we will continue to dominate them. No one wants to be an "AW" but, if you still want to fly, you will have to convert. We will not compete against your normal acoustic and non-acoustic AW's, only those in your stovepipe. All E-6 and below will automatically be converted unless they sign their page, as stated above, E-7 and above will have to request it. It sucks but thats the way the Navy is going with this and we have to be onboard".
Courtesy of
AEC(NAC/AW) C. Brown
Flight Engineer track manager
VP-30
I don't think so. Although these guys will all be former AT/AM/AD/AE, etc, the next generation will not be. The loss of corporate knowledge within the squadron will be immense. I think the aircrew will get get about 2 or 3 months exposure in each shop as part of their training syllabus, but that is all.
Stubby
Ask the Chief
The actual career mapping of the AWV and AWF is still in work. The AWV's presumably won't change too much in the near future, as an IFT is essentially a flying AT.
The flight engineers are the ones going through the biggest transition. (And as always, are the ones whining the loudest.) I haven't sat in on many of the AWF meetings (as I'm a legacy AW), but they will have career milestones that include things like Second Mech, Turn Qual, First Crewman, FCF Qual, Instructor Qual, and Maintenance Safe for Flight (Maint. Control).
The VP Navy (and indeed the Navy as a whole) is moving toward civilian contract maintenance. When MMA comes on line, VP will be almost exclusively civilian maintenance. . Civilian contractors will be traveling with us on dets and deployments, so things like QAR/CDQAR will be covered by them (the pros and cons of this could easily be their own thread.)
Yes, the FE who wrote that e-mail works in the same department as me in VP-30. We tease the FE's all the time about being AW's since the FE's are all elitist pre-Madonnas
. But truth be told, it's not an easy transition for any of us. I started my career as a "Aviation Anti-Submarine Warfare Operator" (A pretty important job during the Cold War), then we were made a little more generic "Aviation Warfare Systems Operators", so we could be sent to traditionally non-ASW platforms. I will end my career as a completely generic "Naval Aircrewman" (not that I necessarily have a problem with that title).
In the end, this transition will actually serve the Navy well. FE's who were competing for CPO in the past were ranked against their maintenance counterparts. Since they essentially had the same quals, FE's, who additionally held aircrew were often promoted ahead of their maintenance brethren. This caused an inversion in advancement that left the maintenance department without proper numbers in leadership positions. One of the biggest gripes the FE's have is that many of the more senior FE's (E-7 and above) will not be allowed to transition to AW. They will remain in their maintenance rate and be done flying. This will effectively equalized the ratio of senior enlisted aircrew/maintenance.
In the future, AWF's will compete against AWF's for rate (through E-7) and won't take any maintenance quotas.
The flight engineers are the ones going through the biggest transition. (And as always, are the ones whining the loudest.) I haven't sat in on many of the AWF meetings (as I'm a legacy AW), but they will have career milestones that include things like Second Mech, Turn Qual, First Crewman, FCF Qual, Instructor Qual, and Maintenance Safe for Flight (Maint. Control).
The VP Navy (and indeed the Navy as a whole) is moving toward civilian contract maintenance. When MMA comes on line, VP will be almost exclusively civilian maintenance. . Civilian contractors will be traveling with us on dets and deployments, so things like QAR/CDQAR will be covered by them (the pros and cons of this could easily be their own thread.)
Yes, the FE who wrote that e-mail works in the same department as me in VP-30. We tease the FE's all the time about being AW's since the FE's are all elitist pre-Madonnas
. But truth be told, it's not an easy transition for any of us. I started my career as a "Aviation Anti-Submarine Warfare Operator" (A pretty important job during the Cold War), then we were made a little more generic "Aviation Warfare Systems Operators", so we could be sent to traditionally non-ASW platforms. I will end my career as a completely generic "Naval Aircrewman" (not that I necessarily have a problem with that title). In the end, this transition will actually serve the Navy well. FE's who were competing for CPO in the past were ranked against their maintenance counterparts. Since they essentially had the same quals, FE's, who additionally held aircrew were often promoted ahead of their maintenance brethren. This caused an inversion in advancement that left the maintenance department without proper numbers in leadership positions. One of the biggest gripes the FE's have is that many of the more senior FE's (E-7 and above) will not be allowed to transition to AW. They will remain in their maintenance rate and be done flying. This will effectively equalized the ratio of senior enlisted aircrew/maintenance.
In the future, AWF's will compete against AWF's for rate (through E-7) and won't take any maintenance quotas.
scarnuts
OUCH!
In the end, this transition will actually serve the Navy well.
I agree, FE's will finally take a rating exam the actually pertains to their real job (being a FE).
FE's who were competing for CPO in the past were ranked against their maintenance counterparts. Since they essentially had the same quals, FE's, who additionally held aircrew were often promoted ahead of their maintenance brethren.
Sure FE's have the same quals as their maintenance counterparts and aircrew wings to boot. However, you failed to mention that these FE's have learned a completely different job (P-3 flight engineer) and then they come back every six months to take the same exam and compete with their maintenance counterparts. If a FE makes rate, then he deserves it. You, as an original AW, should know how simple it is to take the same exam you train for in the plane or study for in your own shop. Not so much for the flight engineer 20 feet up the tube from you. Two jobs, one makes rate and the other is what gets the P-3's off the deck.
This caused an inversion in advancement that left the maintenance department without proper numbers in leadership positions.
Thinking back, we had only 3 or 4 CPO's that were FE's at VP-9 and it seemed proportional to the rest of the mess. To here an AW write so knowledgeable about an inversion in advancement in maintenance is priceless.
One of the biggest gripes the FE's have is that many of the more senior FE's (E-7 and above) will not be allowed to transition to AW. They will remain in their maintenance rate and be done flying.
I'm sure they are. All that work into your career just to be grounded? I can think of many 15 year CPO and above that the fleet will extremely miss if they are grounded.:icon_rage
I agree, FE's will finally take a rating exam the actually pertains to their real job (being a FE).
FE's who were competing for CPO in the past were ranked against their maintenance counterparts. Since they essentially had the same quals, FE's, who additionally held aircrew were often promoted ahead of their maintenance brethren.
Sure FE's have the same quals as their maintenance counterparts and aircrew wings to boot. However, you failed to mention that these FE's have learned a completely different job (P-3 flight engineer) and then they come back every six months to take the same exam and compete with their maintenance counterparts. If a FE makes rate, then he deserves it. You, as an original AW, should know how simple it is to take the same exam you train for in the plane or study for in your own shop. Not so much for the flight engineer 20 feet up the tube from you. Two jobs, one makes rate and the other is what gets the P-3's off the deck.
This caused an inversion in advancement that left the maintenance department without proper numbers in leadership positions.
Thinking back, we had only 3 or 4 CPO's that were FE's at VP-9 and it seemed proportional to the rest of the mess. To here an AW write so knowledgeable about an inversion in advancement in maintenance is priceless.
One of the biggest gripes the FE's have is that many of the more senior FE's (E-7 and above) will not be allowed to transition to AW. They will remain in their maintenance rate and be done flying.
I'm sure they are. All that work into your career just to be grounded? I can think of many 15 year CPO and above that the fleet will extremely miss if they are grounded.:icon_rage
The AW rating is in the process of a merger with all aviation aircrew rates. On P-3's AW's in the rate now will be known as AWO's, the IFTs will be AWV's and the FE's will be known as AWF's. If you are new in your current rate you will probably not be allowed to straight convert to AW (or AWO), but will apply in your current rate and then fall into the merger as it applies to you.....
What about EP-3's? We never had AW's but had AE's and AT's, in addition to the CT's. Making them full time AW's specific to the EP-3 would be a great idea!