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zab1001

zab1001

Well-Known Member
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Hemp, do a search for Naval Aviator and also Naval Flight Officer, that should help you out.

I'll also mention, I don't know what "Hempdiddy" is in reference to. If it's what I think, you may want to represent yourself in a different light.
 
HH-60H

HH-60H

Manager
pilot
Contributor
j_m74 great post with a lot of great info. Just a couple minor inaccuracies that I saw:

FBI does not do DoD background checks (generally)

Commissioned officers in the Army do fly, but it is a fairly small amount of time in their career. The Army also has FW aircraft, but they constitute a small portion of the overall force.

The Marine Corps has its own OCS at Quantico (same base as TBS).
 
Harrier Dude

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
HH-60H said:
j_m74 great post with a lot of great info. Just a couple minor inaccuracies that I saw:

FBI does not do DoD background checks (generally)

Commissioned officers in the Army do fly, but it is a fairly small amount of time in their career. The Army also has FW aircraft, but they constitute a small portion of the overall force.

The Marine Corps has its own OCS at Quantico (same base as TBS).
Click to expand...

@JM74: That was one of the best consolidated replies to this type of inquiry (with the minor corrections above resolved). That should be the standard AW answer to every post like this.
 
jmiller82

jmiller82

Registered User
Sorry for the minor glitches, guys.. Just to clarify, HH-60H, the FBI used to do the background checks, but (as of 9/11 I believe) it has since been contracted out to U.S. Security Investigations (a private firm). HH-60H is right in saying that the Army does have FW pilots, but according to USAREC, they are not training new FW pilots, hinting at a sundown of FW pilots for the the Army's OCS acquisitions, at least. I do have several friends that are West Point (USMA) grads that are flying helos and FW with the Army as comm. officers..

HH-60H, do the Marines do all of their OCS/TBS at Quantico? I was under the impression that it was done at P'cola for OCS and then off to TBS in Quantico.. Thanks for the clarifications..

For now, what is the difference between a pilot and a flight officer?
Click to expand...
The main differences between the two are simple: front seat for pilot / back seat for NFO. :) Actually, there's a lot more to it than just that.. To make it easy for the civilian world, think back to the RIO (Radar Intercept Officer) on "Top Gun." Remember "Goose" and "Maverick?" Goose was the NFO and Maverick the Pilot. There's a pretty simple rendition (sans the Navy's realism and some added Hollywood drama) of what the two do as far as Strike Fighters are concerned.. You should know that NFO's also do not operate on helos and are pilots to an extent (think navigator/co-pilot), but also engage in a different mission onboard the aircraft. Here's a simple breakdown of an NFO:

* Strike Fighter: F/A-18F: Serves as a Radar Intercept Officer (RIO), Weapons System Officer (WSO) for Marines, or a Forward Air Controller.
* Strike: EA-6B: Serves as an Electronic Countermeasures Operator (ECMO) and Navigator.
* Surveillance/Patrol: P-3: Serves as a Navigator or a Flight Engineer.
* TACAMO (Take Charge and Move Out): E-6B: Serves as an Airborne Communications Officer (ACO).
* AEWS (Airborne Early Warning System): E-2C: Serves as a Combat Information Center Officer (CICO).

These are the only aircraft (currently) that the Navy is training NFO's to fly onboard, with the sundown of the S-3 and the recent decommissioning of the F-14. There are "rumors" or plans to replace the P-3 with the P-8 and also plans to replace the EA-6B with the F/A-18G. Of course, these are purely "RUMORS," and until they are officially announced by the Navy, I wouldn't put much merit into them..

A good site for some NFO info is CNATRA. There is also a good pipeline that is there, or I've included one that came from UPenn NROTC with a few of my own modifications, according to the Navy billets today..

As always, do some research on both pilots and NFO's. I'll let these other guys, who are the professionals, explain exactly what a pilot is/does.
 

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Brett327

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
j_m74 said:
Sorry for the minor glitches, guys.. I'll let these other guys, who are the professionals, explain exactly what a pilot is/does.
Click to expand...

Good advice. To correct a couple other "glitches," Flight Engineers on P-3s are not NFOs, but enlisted Aircrewman. Additionally, the Navigator on a P-3 is really the penultimate NFO position - the TACCO (Tactical Coordinator) is really what the fully qualified P-3 NFO does. Lastly, the G model Hornet replacement for the Prowler is designated the EA-18G and not F/A-18G. The G model is not a rumor - it is bought, paid for, and in initial stages of production. Almost forgot, Rhino NFOs are WSOs too, not RIOs. I'm not trying to pick your otherwise helpful post apart, but bad gouge doesn't help anyone.

Brett
 
M

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
j_m74 said:
HH-60H, do the Marines do all of their OCS/TBS at Quantico? I was under the impression that it was done at P'cola for OCS and then off to TBS in Quantico.. Thanks for the clarifications..


The main differences between the two are simple: front seat for pilot / back seat for NFO. :) Actually, there's a lot more to it than just that.. To make it easy for the civilian world, think back to the RIO (Radar Intercept Officer) on "Top Gun." Remember "Goose" and "Maverick?" Goose was the NFO and Maverick the Pilot. There's a pretty simple rendition (sans the Navy's realism and some added Hollywood drama) of what the two do as far as Strike Fighters are concerned.. You should know that NFO's also do not operate on helos and are pilots to an extent (think navigator/co-pilot), but also engage in a different mission onboard the aircraft. Here's a simple breakdown of an NFO:

* Strike Fighter: F/A-18F: Serves as a Radar Intercept Officer (RIO), Weapons System Officer (WSO) for Marines, or a Forward Air Controller.
* Strike: EA-6B: Serves as an Electronic Countermeasures Operator (ECMO) and Navigator.
* Surveillance/Patrol: P-3: Serves as a Navigator or a Flight Engineer.
* TACAMO (Take Charge and Move Out): E-6B: Serves as an Airborne Communications Officer (ACO).
* AEWS (Airborne Early Warning System): E-2C: Serves as a Combat Information Center Officer (CICO).

These are the only aircraft (currently) that the Navy is training NFO's to fly onboard, with the sundown of the S-3 and the recent decommissioning of the F-14. There are "rumors" or plans to replace the P-3 with the P-8 and also plans to replace the EA-6B with the F/A-18G. Of course, these are purely "RUMORS," and until they are officially announced by the Navy, I wouldn't put much merit into them..
Click to expand...

JM, some minor stuff,

P3s use NFOs as Navigators and TACCO (Tactical Coordinator). They run the tactical problem. Flight Engineer is an enlisted sailor.

EA-18G is coming. IOC 2009. Not a Rumor.

P8 is coming, unsure of IOC. Also not a rumor.
 
HH-60H

HH-60H

Manager
pilot
Contributor
j_m74 said:
Just to clarify, HH-60H, the FBI used to do the background checks, but (as of 9/11 I believe) it has since been contracted out to U.S. Security Investigations (a private firm).
Click to expand...

I believe the Defense Security Service used to do all DoD investigations, but as of 1 Oct 2004 OPM took over. I also believe OPM contracts them out sometimes.


j_m74 said:
HH-60H, do the Marines do all of their OCS/TBS at Quantico? I was under the impression that it was done at P'cola for OCS and then off to TBS in Quantico.. Thanks for the clarifications..
Click to expand...

Unless something has changed, Navy OCS is at Pcola. Marine OCS is at Quantico. However, Marine Corps DI's conduct some of the training at Navy OCS in Pcola.


j_m74 said:
You should know that NFO's also do not operate on helos and are pilots to an extent (think navigator/co-pilot), but also engage in a different mission onboard the aircraft.
Click to expand...

I am not quite sure what you mean here, but all Navy helos have pilot and copilot, both Naval Aviators.

I'll let other people address the couple of other items.
 
jmiller82

jmiller82

Registered User
Whoops! Sorry for the apparent bum gouge! I was pulling all of my info off of chinfo and some other Navy.mil sites, so I thought it was updated.. Amazing how much the official sites are behind the real world.. Thanks for the clarifications...gulp..AGAIN.. haha

MasterBates, I was told by some of the guys at NAS Pax River in acquisition that the F/A-18G WAS coming in, but not sure on what the dates were for decom of EA-6B, and the same for P-3.. Not sure if P-8 was replacement for P-3 though, but will take your word at it..

HH-60H, As of about a week ago, it is US Security Investigations, I believe a subsidiary or subcontractor for Kroll, Inc., which is indeed handed down by the OPM.
Yeah, I did some checking around about OCS/TBS and indeed, it is all in Quantico. I guess all the olive green I'll be seeing is a DI in my face or the grass in my face, after I see that DI..
Regarding the helo and question of NFO's - I was trying to say that only NA's pilot/fly onboard helo's as far as the aviation community goes..

Oh yeah, one more distinguishing factor, Hempdiddy:
Pilots have the wings of gold with a single vertical anchor through the center, while NFO's get two :) smaller anchors placed diagonally across the center of their wings of gold. Both are eligible (and the only ones eligible) to command an aircraft carrier.
 
jmiller82

jmiller82

Registered User
Moderators, we should create a sticky with revised/updated info about starting the process for OCS for those like Hempdiddy who are new to the process.. I guess it would be pertinent to display some advertising information for Naval Aviation (SNA/SNFO) somewhere in there.. Bad idea/good idea? I didn't see a thread or sticky that was inclusive of everything (procedural at least)..
 
jmiller82

jmiller82

Registered User
Not according to the Navy recruiting manuals and advertisements..

Can't find the link or brochures, but here is a quote from Univ. Washington's NROTC, which is a quote from all of the Navy recruiting:
"Members of the Naval Aviation community have an additional bonus: only they can be the Commanding Officers of aircraft carriers. Those who are selected after command of a squadron for this next level of achievement receive similar training as that received by Surface Warfare Officers. They first command a deep-draft ship, such as an auxiliary ship, and then will be given command of an aircraft carrier!"
 
jmiller82

jmiller82

Registered User
Yeah, I think that can be a SWO, but not certain.. Check with some of the SWO's on here, they'd know..
 
jmiller82

jmiller82

Registered User
Haha.. and for the newcomers who'd that be? Just my perogative, but I don't think I could go from Aviation to SWO..
 
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