Riverine force

[McNamara]

I'm looking into the various possibilities for follow-on orders after my IA billet (which takes me right up to my PRD). As I'm interested in a combat job of some sort, my OIC suggested I look into the new riverine force the Navy is standing up soon. The nominal manning construct for the deployable "squadrons" shows that LTs will be the small unit OICs. Sounds like it could be fun, but it also says they want SWOs to fill these billets.

Could this be worth further investigation? I'm concerned that my detailer might agree to redesignate me but that I'd also have to do a traditional SWO tour on a ship before getting into the riverine thing. On the other hand I wonder if the IA gives me enough brownie points for them to cut me some slack.

 

[HH-60H]

I'm concerned that my detailer might agree to redesignate me but that I'd also have to do a traditional SWO tour on a ship before getting into the riverine thing.

Are you talking redesignate to 1110? If so you it's not up to the detailer (beyond normal detailer concurrence), you have to apply to the transfer/redesignation board. Once you do that you are at the mercy of the SWO detailer/community. I would imagine they make some compensation for previous IA/sea time, but maybe not since you would be the Navy's first 1310 to 1110.
There may opportunities in the Riverine force for 1310s, I don't know.

 

[HAL Pilot]

If you have any intentions of making the military career, you need to pick a career path and stick with it.

In the past, you have posted about the pitfalls of the reserve squadron billet you volunteered for, switching to the Army, switching to any branchs' special forces, wanting an IA billet and now wanting to go to a riverine unit.

It's always combat this, more fun that and I want to be Rambo.

You are going to find yourself released from active duty for failing to select for promotion. It's called a career path for a reason. The Navy does not just switch you between communities because "it's fun". They have already spent a small fortune teaching you to be a pilot. With your IA tour as a very junior officer when you should be building flight experience you are already falling behind your contemporaries. Maybe that was the real reason they tried to find others more senior for that first IA billet you sought. They were trying to protect you from yourself. Pilots are supposed to leave their first squadrons as aircraft commanders with a bunch of A time. You are going to leave as a 2P with minimal total time.

 

[zab1001]

Don't you have the option to continue as SELRES with your squadron? Dude, if so DO IT. Do everything you can to become an AC.

 

[McNamara]

...Once you do that you are at the mercy of the SWO detailer/community...

Yeah, that might not be the best idea. I had hoped this was going to be its own separate community, but I guess it's going to be more like the SBUs, where a SWO just comes in and does a single tour before going back to the regular career path.

If you have any intentions of making the military career, you need to pick a career path and stick with it.

In the past, you have posted about the pitfalls of the reserve squadron billet you volunteered for, switching to the Army, switching to any branchs' special forces, wanting an IA billet and now wanting to go to a riverine unit.

It's always combat this, more fun that and I want to be Rambo.

You are going to find yourself released from active duty for failing to select for promotion. It's called a career path for a reason. The Navy does not just switch you between communities because "it's fun". They have already spent a small fortune teaching you to be a pilot. With your IA tour as a very junior officer when you should be building flight experience you are already falling behind your contemporaries. Maybe that was the real reason they tried to find others more senior for that first IA billet you sought. They were trying to protect you from yourself. Pilots are supposed to leave their first squadrons as aircraft commanders with a bunch of A time. You are going to leave as a 2P with minimal total time.

Forgive me for asking, but what's wrong with wanting to be in combat? We are talking about the military if I'm not mistaken. I don't know why some pilots get all weird when I say that I don't want to be a pilot for my whole life. It's as though I was insulting your chosen profession or something. There are a few pilots in my squadron with a similar attitude. Looking at your bio, I can see that you've had a greatly varied career - you didn't just do ONE thing the entire time.

Besides, it was obvious from the beginning that going VR out of flight school meant derailing a normal career path. Why should I care about promotion and advancement now? And I doubt I would have volunteered to spend a year in the sandbox if having fun was my ultimate motivation. Sure I want to enjoy my job, but I'm also a hard worker and I like a challenge.

Don't you have the option to continue as SELRES with your squadron? Dude, if so DO IT. Do everything you can to become an AC.

Yes, I can apply to the SELRES board. I'll send you an IM.

 

[HooverPilot]

Forgive me for asking, but what's wrong with wanting to be in combat? We are talking about the military if I'm not mistaken. I don't know why some pilots get all weird when I say that I don't want to be a pilot for my whole life. It's as though I was insulting your chosen profession or something. There are a few pilots in my squadron with a similar attitude. Looking at your bio, I can see that you've had a greatly varied career - you didn't just do ONE thing the entire time.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be in combat, there is much to be admired about your desire, BUT, that isn't the point that people were trying to make to you. The point is that if you want to even have the option to stay in the Navy past your initial obligation, you need to stay in your career field. You will not promote and advance in a career if you change paths too often or too late.

 

[A4sForever]

I love it.

The "Riverine Force" ... i.e., like it's something "new" ....

If it's anything like the "old" brown-water Riverine Force ... if/when you go to it --- you are done as an Aviator. All of the guys that I knew that went that way were attrites/DOR's from the TRACOM .... not exactly a "career enhancing" billet for Aviation. Perhaps it's different now, but I doubt it.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Forgive me for asking, but what's wrong with wanting to be in combat? We are talking about the military if I'm not mistaken. I don't know why some pilots get all weird when I say that I don't want to be a pilot for my whole life. It's as though I was insulting your chosen profession or something. There are a few pilots in my squadron with a similar attitude. Looking at your bio, I can see that you've had a greatly varied career - you didn't just do ONE thing the entire time.

Ok, maybe my "always combat this, more fun that and I want to be Rambo" line was a little harsh.

I had varied career but I did it within the confines of my career path.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be in combat, there is much to be admired about your desire, BUT, that isn't the point that people were trying to make to you. The point is that if you want to even have the option to stay in the Navy past your initial obligation, you need to stay in your career field. You will not promote and advance in a career if you change paths too often or too late.

Exactly.

Additionally I feel you have an obligation to the Navy to give them their money's worth. You told them you wanted to be a pilot and they spent a million or two training you to be one. Now it seems you are doing everything possible not to be a pilot. I believe you made a committment to the Navy and the Navy should not end up wasting that money and effort that went into training you so you can "have fun" doing something totally outside the aviation career path.

 

[HeyJoe]

Riverine = Brown Water Navy

I love it.

The "Riverine Force" ... i.e., like it's something "new" ....

If it's anything like the "old" brown-water Riverine Force ... if/when you go to it --- you are done as an Aviator. All of the guys that I knew that went that way were attrites/DOR's from the TRACOM .... not exactly a "career enhancing" billet for Aviation. Perhaps it's different now, but I doubt it.

It's a lot like the Brown Water Navy. In fact, USNI hosted a symposium on Riverine Force in April and had veterans from US Navy and Vietnamese Brown Water Navy there. Their consistent message was don't let it be the career ending proposition it was for so many in Viet Nam despite all promises to the contrary.

RADM Bullard "owns" the Naval Expeditionary Combat Command as a "Type" Commander" under USFFC with an O-6 commanding the actual Group level forces comprising the reincarnated Brown Water Navy. Marine units are the corporate memory (see images) for conventional employment down range and are turning resources over to the Navy. Naval Special Warfare also maintains Brown Water assets as well (see image of sea wall with USMC and NSW watercraft on display at USNA for the USNI conference in April). Interestingly, the training of the Navy conventional units falls unde ra new Major Command headed by an 0-6 who was a former Marine Naval Aviator who tranferred to the Navy and commanded a Tomcat squadron so aviators are no stranger to this business. Note: the Navy Brown Navy in Viet Nam included dedicated support from VAL (OV-10 Black Ponies) and HAL (Navy UH-1 Hueys).

 

[phrogdriver]

Forgive me for asking, but what's wrong with wanting to be in combat? We are talking about the military if I'm not mistaken. I don't know why some pilots get all weird when I say that I don't want to be a pilot for my whole life. It's as though I was insulting your chosen profession or something. There are a few pilots in my squadron with a similar attitude. Looking at your bio, I can see that you've had a greatly varied career - you didn't just do ONE thing the entire time..

Forgive me for asking a stupid question that you may have answered in another thread. If you wanted to be Action Jackson, why in the name of Satan's bunghole did you select VR? I doubt you got drafted into that community. It sounds as if you might have a "huh, that sounds cool" fetish. ADHD is not a way to get long-term success in any field, military or civilian.

One, realize that even though you may not be a "career" guy now, you life and motivations may change, and you may be hosing yourself later. The further you go off the reservation, the less the detailer will help you with subsequent plans.

Two, as HAL pointed out, your goal as a JO should be to demonstrated competence in your airframe, by building hours and designations. That is the one thing you need to accomplish before doing anything weird. Get your quals, then you can ask for weird stuff. Honestly, that is the way to organize a career. Do something in your specialty, then a tour somewhere else, then back to your job, etc.

Lastly, I hope this combat desire is, as it is for most in the military, part of a legitimate desire to be with your other comrades in the war. With the "that sounds cool" vibe from your posts, it sounds as if you think it might be something really exciting, along the lines of parasailing or maybe BASE jumping. That is not the right viewpoint to take going into the fight. This is deadly serious business, and combat tours shouldn't be taken from a standpoint of going on some sort of bizarre adventure travel itinerary.

 

[Gatordev]

HJ:

Is that the Academy? Looks like the seawall, the bridge, and one of the north parade grounds. Plus, I think I see some blue-rims there.

 

[HeyJoe]

HJ:

Is that the Academy? Looks like the seawall, the bridge, and one of the north parade grounds. Plus, I think I see some blue-rims there.

Right you are...the Riverine Conference was held in Alumni Hall so the Marines and SWCC crews "parked" their toys along the seawall and gave incentive rides to the Mids...note the YP in background and the passengers aboard the RHIB.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Been watching this thread for a little bit and it appears it needs a little SWOish perspective.

I'm looking into the various possibilities for follow-on orders after my IA billet (which takes me right up to my PRD). As I'm interested in a combat job of some sort, my OIC suggested I look into the new riverine force the Navy is standing up soon. The nominal manning construct for the deployable "squadrons" shows that LTs will be the small unit OICs. Sounds like it could be fun, but it also says they want SWOs to fill these billets.

Yes, the officer manning of these riverine warfare squadrons will largely be made up of SWO's. The LT's they're looking for (OIC types) are post divo (two divo sea tours) guys who are up for shore duty orders. SWO's will also be filling billets at the squadron level, but these are second tour DH billets as well as for XO and CO.

Could this be worth further investigation? I'm concerned that my detailer might agree to redesignate me but that I'd also have to do a traditional SWO tour on a ship before getting into the riverine thing. On the other hand I wonder if the IA gives me enough brownie points for them to cut me some slack.

My gut reaction is that you would have to do a lateral transfer to 1110 and qualify SWO before even being eligible for these billets. This is not to say that you would necessarily have to do two divo tours before being eligible. Maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't. I don't know. That being said, you would then be a SWO and would be expected to continue along the SWO career path. After that tour, you would go to DH school and then off to your DH tours and then so on. This would be unless you decided to get out after your service obligation as a result of your lateral transfer (3 yrs I think). All that said, it is worth pursuing if you think you have a genuine interest in it and have something to contribute.

For the SWO community, your career is made at the DH level. This is where you will be trying to break out in order to better your chances for XO/CO selection. This is even more so now that the SWO community is implementing the XO/CO fleetup program....much like aviators do. Realize that the SWO community wants you to be in DH school no later than your 7.5 years of commissioned service point. This is to keep you on track for promotion. You will not make O-4 unless you are in a DH tour, no matter how good you can walk on water.

The other thing to consider with a lateral transfer is that you would not be able to until you have fullfilled whatever service requirements the aviation community has for you first.

[start rant]I swear to God, the more I listen to some of you guys the more you sound like SWO's. The SWO community is notorious for blackballing those guys who want to do something outside the normal career path of the SWO. Furthermore, SWO's even need to be cautious by just bringing up to their COC that they are interested in a lateral transfer to another community. It is rediculous and unnecessary. How many times have we said on this board, "Officer first, community (Aviator, SWO, Intel, whatever) second? I guess that concept only works in theory, but not it practice.

Additionally I feel you have an obligation to the Navy to give them their money's worth.

So long as he is providing a valued and needed contribution to the Navy's mission, the Navy IS getting its money's worth.

I believe you made a committment to the Navy and the Navy should not end up wasting that money and effort that went into training you so you can "have fun" doing something totally outside the aviation career path.

Would that same philosophy also apply to all those prior enlisted nukes who get selected for commissioning programs? The resulting effect is that they are "transfering out" of the nuke community.

Lastly, I hope this combat desire is, as it is for most in the military, part of a legitimate desire to be with your other comrades in the war. With the "that sounds cool" vibe from your posts, it sounds as if you think it might be something really exciting, along the lines of parasailing or maybe BASE jumping. That is not the right viewpoint to take going into the fight.

You've got to be kidding. Most aviators I have ever met wanted to be an aviator because it's cool and sounds like it will be a blast. They want to fly low and fast and blow sh!t up. Right? Why is it any different when an aviator wants to do something outside the box that he thinks will be fun, while contributing to the Navy's mission?

IMO, the prevailing attitude in this thread is incredibly shortsighted, but unfortunately a popular one navy wide. I think officers in general are so preoccupied with planning their next career move (i.e. punching tickets) that they lose sight of two very important things. 1) Matching their talents, skills, and interests with a billet that will allow them to be put to good use. 2) Having fun along the way
[/end rant]

 

[HeyJoe]

If you really want to switch, then check out SWCC option as well:

http://www.sealchallenge.navy.mil/swcc/

 

[BlkPny]

Whoa! Experiencing severe flashbacks! And, I might add, loving it.
A4s was right. Lots of the boat drivers were former flight students. They would be classmates of ours for awhile in flight school, then disappear. Suddenly we would run in to them in the O-club in Binh Thuy.