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Road to 350: What Does the US Navy Do Anyway?
- Thread starter Randy Daytona
- Start date
On point. I agree with the sentiment.
A very, very, very good question
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
It's not a good question at all.
"You get paid to think." -Every submarine officer to their crew.
In retrospect, it's extremely easy to see the inconsistencies and contradictions in the policies.
The majority of SVMs who took the vaccine had the attitude of "well, it's not worth risking my paycheck, what's one more jab." In other words, cowardice. I include myself in that group.
There are some percentage of people who objected in order to get a quick way out of the Navy. But the people who objected and want to return had actual moral courage, and we shouldn't criticize them for that.
Brett has drank the kool-aid, so he can't fathom why the NPIs put out in 2020-2021 were pants-on-head retarded to anyone with an ounce of critical thought.
Of note, not a single person who refused to fight the BHR fire went to jail. That pisses off a lot of Marines.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
Except today we have deemed them unlawful. The mea culpa is the federal government's attempt to avoid class action lawsuits.
And I'm sure that had nothing to do with partisan politics!
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
Not relevant. We're an apartisan organization, remember?
Servicemembers were being pressured into taking a non-FDA approved vaccine in order to restore their normal liberties. A few people refused, and fast forward to today and a lot of lawyers have had the opportunity to weigh in on the issue.
I can guaran-damn-tee you that it doesn't matter which party was in office... they'd have the same policy because the alternative is that the federal government would owe a lot of money to a lot of people. We already played this game with anthrax.
You are so close to getting it.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
You're so far from understanding what I am saying.
The federal government had to pay out millions of dollars for its anthrax policy before the vaccine went through the actual proper channels to get approved. Drop in the bucket relative to total budget, but lots of egg on the face in the PR realm.
Of note, I've personally received the anthrax vaccine... but I could have denied it with no repercussions other than an annoyed detailer.
So you're saying that it's not lawful for the military to order us as service members to take and receive a non-approved vaccine?
I would argue in military service your life is not your own to make those decisions. You do not have agency when you are in uniformed service. And your government owns the risk if anything goes upside down.
The requirement for the Covid vaccine was rescinded by an act of Congress that overrode DoD policy. That has zero bearing on the lawfulness of the order - now, or in retrospect. The order was lawful when it was issued. Those that disobeyed the order were in violation of the UCMJ and faced the consequences of that violation. That the requirement was subsequently rescinded has no bearing on that UCMJ violation. While I believe in redemption and second chances, these members who are rejoining the ranks are going to have to work hard to earn back the trust they lost.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
No.
I'm saying that an order is lawful until proven otherwise. So if someone is going to disobey an order on the grounds that it's unlawful, they have some homework to do. Aka it's an 'affirmative defense.' The people who were discharged for refusing the COVID-19 vaccine were dealt with appropriately, pending further appeal.
However, that homework has resulted in courts ruling that the order was unlawful. Or rather, the government playing damage control to avoid further litigation because it knows it was unlawful. And part of being in the military is that you accept the policy decisions of civilian leadership. So you gotta get over the fact that the policy has changed. Brett is chest-thumping, but if he were still AD in command then he would color inside the lines... because almost no GOFO (advised by senior JAGs) have stood up to the policy.
So those SVMs stood their ground and won. That's commendable. I would take anyone that committed to their moral compass on my team any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
As a food for thought: the only person to have served time for the Mai Lai massacre was a 2LT, who was later pardoned. The only person who had a moral compass that day was a SGT who shot himself in the foot to bow out of the incident.... everyone else was 'just following orders.' Furthermore, no American was jailed for the unrestricted submarine warfare crimes in WWII, unlike German Admirals.
If you are active duty, then you accept the authority of civilian leadership to make policy decisions. Which means that if you disagree with their handling of COVID-19 vaccine deniers, you are wrong and they are right. If the administration changes parties in 2 years and that flips, then you also need to flip your opinion... or else again you are wrong, and they are right. You may go to jail for following the orders of one administration over the other... that's the price of a quarter million dollar a year salary.
If POTUS says you shall discharge every transgendered servicemember because they pose a threat to national security, you say aye sir. If the next administration lets them back in, you say aye sir. And again, no GOFO is making noise over it. If you think it's illegal, then argue it at your article 92 trial.
If one President says that you shall waterboard 'non-combatants' and put them into 3x3 carboard boxes, and subsequently use SERE to experiment with 'enhanced interrogation' then you do it. If the next one says that's torture, then you stop. The only person to ever stand trial for it was a whistleblower.
I want you to reconcile a vaccine denier with people who willingly tortured brown-skinned people for worshipping another religion. The almighty Brett as a JO decided that he aligned with the organization's moral values, and I decided to join them after the fact. We've all got blood on our hands.
So yeah, these things are VERY political, and we have a very long, ugly history. Welcome to the suck. Don't like it? Vote with your feet.
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Any thoughts on how the B-1 evacuation from the UK foreshadow US forces overseas? Perhaps we move our aircraft to countries that fork out the cash to build various types of shelters?
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Why is a shelter the best risk reduction strategy?Any thoughts on how the B-1 evacuation from the UK foreshadow US forces overseas? Perhaps we move our aircraft to countries that fork out the cash to build various types of shelters?
A $3.8 Billion Supersonic U.S. Fleet Was Almost Wiped Out By a Glorified Child’s Toy
Operation Spider's Web proved $2,000 toys can hunt supersonic giants. Now the Pentagon is rattled.www.popularmechanics.com