GroundPounder
Well-Known Member
Is there a mandate to store the data for a certain length of time, or do you use/look at the data and then write over it the next flight? Obviously assuming that nothing out of the way happened that was captured.
-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
I believe the only requirement is to immediately destroy all UFO sighting videos and give the aircrew a “cray-cray” discharge.
Option 2, because there aren’t enough tapes to go around. There’s no mandate to store the data that’s recorded. If it’s something noteworthy on an operational mission, you bring the tapes to CVIC for debrief.
That’s basically what the Block 3 has — CVRS records the LADs
Thanks to each of you for all the input. After thinking about it for a couple of days (and still wanting all the help I can get), I'm going to accept that it may help to fully explain why I have these oddly specific questions. First though, let me say that I've always had the greatest respect for all fighter pilots and airmen (and women), and anyone who has devoted any part of their life to serving our country. Especially those of you who ever put your own life in harms way for it. That also applies to the individuals involved in the story below that I've been researching for several years now. Myself, I've never served in the military, though I've had relatives who have. So you all have my respect, even as I may ask some difficult questions or approach some sensitive topics...
That said...here's the story:
As some of you may be aware, there was a fascinating set of events that took place back in November of 2004 involving the Nimitz Carrier and the Princeton during activities about 60 nautical miles west of San Diego. During one training exercise (red flag/blue flag), two pilots, David Fravor and Alex Dietrich, and their WSO's, flying new (Block 2?) F/A-18F's, encountered a white elongated pill shaped object that maneuvered like nothing they had ever seen. I won't go into the whole story since there's plenty of info about it out there, but my interest at the moment revolves specifically around the claim that the main pilot involved (Fravor) did not record any video of his encounter when he decided to descend and ultimately go straight at the odd white 'thing'.
Fwiw, I think from the beginning some people had gotten the impression that the what is now called the 'tic-tac' object, seen in the so-called 'FLIR1' video, is the actual object Fravor saw. But that's an error. The "FLIR1" video was made later by WSO Chad Underwood during his flight that launched some time after Fravor and Dietrich were back on the Nimitz. The objects were reportedly similar, but it's important to note that the alleged tic-tac video that has been widely disseminated since 2017, was in fact made hours later using an ATFLIR on Underwood's aircraft. Curiously, Fravor has always implied he did not get a 'tape', initially simply deflecting the question by saying he hadn't turned on his helmet camera. I have read that his aircraft did not have an ATFLIR mounted, but I have yet to see real proof of that.
A few years ago, while working on an earlier article, I filed an FOIA request for information on this specific set of events. At the time, the response I received did make a few waves. In the response, I was told that there was a video that was still classified, but no details were given to establish exactly what it was of, where it came from, or who took it. Still it made things very interesting because it clearly was somehow related to my specific request about the Nimitiz incidents. Since 2017, Fravor has been on numerous interviews and podcasts (Lex Fridman and Joe Rogan are two), and at times has even described being angry enough to go down to CVIC and demand his tapes back, at which point he made a copy and wrote 'hold for CO' on it, and locked it in a safe (later it allegedly disappeared from the safe). Still, having made a copy (in some reports he made two copies) certainly means an original tape existed.
Eventually, in 2017, a report was inadvertently leaked of an interview with Fravor's wingman, Alex Dietrich, in which she directly described that when they were back on the Nimitz, Fravor had become frustrated, slammed the door, and made a copy of his 'gun tape'. That certainly caught my attention because it meant that now we had statements from both pilots involved that there is/was a 'gun tape' that was Fravor's, and he had made one or two copies of it.
In more recent years the story has started to be modified by those involved to say that, in actuality, this was the tape known as FLIR1 made by WSO Chad Underwood on the flight that launched -after- Fravor's flight had already landed back on the Nimitz. But what doesn't make sense to me is that Fravor has stated that on their return, he sent his WSO down to CVIC for the debrief, presumably with the tape(s)... (it's my understanding that the CVIC debriefs are typically done within an hour of returning). After that is when Fravor said he became frustrated by the seeming lack of interest in their encounter, and that's when he went down to CVIC himself and demanded his tapes back! So the timing he lays out is not consistent with having waited several hours for the second flight to return with their tapes. And not to forget Dietrich's own statement that Fravor made a copy of 'his gun tape' -- (not Underwood's tape, which was an ATFLIR tape anyway, not a gun tape).
On realizing that the term 'gun tape' refers to virtually everything recorded by the CVRS system (not the helmet camera or an ATFLIR recording), I now suspect this may be the tape that Fravor did make during his encounter, and the one he made copies of later, Perhaps it is also the classified one mentioned in my earlier FOIA request response.
All this is why I've been curious about 'gun tapes'. So any thoughts or suggestions will be appreciated.
One more question that will help is: After returning from any mission where you end up with such a 'gun tape', is it common to wait an hour or two before going to CVIC for the debrief? Are there standard rules/guidelines for when the CVIC debrief should be done?
That said...here's the story:
As some of you may be aware, there was a fascinating set of events that took place back in November of 2004 involving the Nimitz Carrier and the Princeton during activities about 60 nautical miles west of San Diego. During one training exercise (red flag/blue flag), two pilots, David Fravor and Alex Dietrich, and their WSO's, flying new (Block 2?) F/A-18F's, encountered a white elongated pill shaped object that maneuvered like nothing they had ever seen. I won't go into the whole story since there's plenty of info about it out there, but my interest at the moment revolves specifically around the claim that the main pilot involved (Fravor) did not record any video of his encounter when he decided to descend and ultimately go straight at the odd white 'thing'.
Fwiw, I think from the beginning some people had gotten the impression that the what is now called the 'tic-tac' object, seen in the so-called 'FLIR1' video, is the actual object Fravor saw. But that's an error. The "FLIR1" video was made later by WSO Chad Underwood during his flight that launched some time after Fravor and Dietrich were back on the Nimitz. The objects were reportedly similar, but it's important to note that the alleged tic-tac video that has been widely disseminated since 2017, was in fact made hours later using an ATFLIR on Underwood's aircraft. Curiously, Fravor has always implied he did not get a 'tape', initially simply deflecting the question by saying he hadn't turned on his helmet camera. I have read that his aircraft did not have an ATFLIR mounted, but I have yet to see real proof of that.
A few years ago, while working on an earlier article, I filed an FOIA request for information on this specific set of events. At the time, the response I received did make a few waves. In the response, I was told that there was a video that was still classified, but no details were given to establish exactly what it was of, where it came from, or who took it. Still it made things very interesting because it clearly was somehow related to my specific request about the Nimitiz incidents. Since 2017, Fravor has been on numerous interviews and podcasts (Lex Fridman and Joe Rogan are two), and at times has even described being angry enough to go down to CVIC and demand his tapes back, at which point he made a copy and wrote 'hold for CO' on it, and locked it in a safe (later it allegedly disappeared from the safe). Still, having made a copy (in some reports he made two copies) certainly means an original tape existed.
Eventually, in 2017, a report was inadvertently leaked of an interview with Fravor's wingman, Alex Dietrich, in which she directly described that when they were back on the Nimitz, Fravor had become frustrated, slammed the door, and made a copy of his 'gun tape'. That certainly caught my attention because it meant that now we had statements from both pilots involved that there is/was a 'gun tape' that was Fravor's, and he had made one or two copies of it.
In more recent years the story has started to be modified by those involved to say that, in actuality, this was the tape known as FLIR1 made by WSO Chad Underwood on the flight that launched -after- Fravor's flight had already landed back on the Nimitz. But what doesn't make sense to me is that Fravor has stated that on their return, he sent his WSO down to CVIC for the debrief, presumably with the tape(s)... (it's my understanding that the CVIC debriefs are typically done within an hour of returning). After that is when Fravor said he became frustrated by the seeming lack of interest in their encounter, and that's when he went down to CVIC himself and demanded his tapes back! So the timing he lays out is not consistent with having waited several hours for the second flight to return with their tapes. And not to forget Dietrich's own statement that Fravor made a copy of 'his gun tape' -- (not Underwood's tape, which was an ATFLIR tape anyway, not a gun tape).
On realizing that the term 'gun tape' refers to virtually everything recorded by the CVRS system (not the helmet camera or an ATFLIR recording), I now suspect this may be the tape that Fravor did make during his encounter, and the one he made copies of later, Perhaps it is also the classified one mentioned in my earlier FOIA request response.
All this is why I've been curious about 'gun tapes'. So any thoughts or suggestions will be appreciated.
One more question that will help is: After returning from any mission where you end up with such a 'gun tape', is it common to wait an hour or two before going to CVIC for the debrief? Are there standard rules/guidelines for when the CVIC debrief should be done?
A few points for you to consider:
- You should have been honest about this at the outset. A lot of people here spent time providing you information. Had I known this was for something about Fravor or UFOs, I would not have wasted my time. Kind of a dick move, TBH.
- UFOs aren't real - Everything in Fravor's and other videos from the Nimitz event have been thoroughly debunked to my satisfaction.
- Nobody here is going to solve your gun tape mystery.
- You should have been honest about this at the outset. A lot of people here spent time providing you information. Had I known this was for something about Fravor or UFOs, I would not have wasted my time. Kind of a dick move, TBH.
- UFOs aren't real - Everything in Fravor's and other videos from the Nimitz event have been thoroughly debunked to my satisfaction.
- Nobody here is going to solve your gun tape mystery.
Griz’s comment looks even better now.
I started to get “that” feeling around post #5. To me it was leaning toward either the little greenies or having to decide if you will shoot down an airliner filled with nuns and orphan babies that is under the control of international terrorists.