Blackhawk / CRJ-700 Midair

[Flash]

In my earlier comments with Red Blend, I was trying to illuminate the fact that maybe volunteering for collateral duties when you are unqualified in T/M/S and with so few flight hours, maybe trying to do everything in your control to study, sim, fly and get qualified should be your #1 priority. I was qualified in 4 T/M/S aircraft, 2 as an enlisted aircrewman, and 2 as an officer (NAO/NFO). There was NOTHING in my life that was more important than getting qualified - nothing. And yes, I understand that this is the ARMY's flight hour program fault, right @Flash ?

Ultimately it is the command's responsibility to ensure their aviator is qualified and safe to fly, that whole 'command responsibility/accountability' we always hear about. An individual aviator certainly has responsibility to ensure they are a safe, qualified and competent aviator but can only do so much if only given limited tools with which to work like only 56 hours of flight time and frankly is likely not the best judge of their own ability. That is where command itself has a responsibility, and has plenty of ways to determine if that their aviators are qualified and safe to fly.

I’m over at Davison AAF quite a bit, the scuttle but about this aviator, and this mishap, is sad. I think the Army, and her command failed her completely.

I think the scuttlebutt says more about the command than the aviator.

 

[DanMa1156]

I still think ADS-B Out should be mandatory for ALL aircraft in that location,

Wait, color me dumb, it isn't?

This was a major thing in GA and in the TH-57 - and even the MH-60S although I'd argue the wing didn't really understand it like CNATRA did - that required upgrades in all those aircraft.

Or am I thinking of something else?

 

[Mos]

I was trying to illuminate the fact that maybe volunteering for collateral duties when you are unqualified in T/M/S and with so few flight hours, maybe trying to do everything in your control to study, sim, fly and get qualified should be your #1 priority.

Are you in this person's command and know for a fact that this is how it played out?

 

[sevenhelmet]

Wait, color me dumb, it isn't?

This was a major thing in GA and in the TH-57 - and even the MH-60S although I'd argue the wing didn't really understand it like CNATRA did - that required upgrades in all those aircraft.

Or am I thinking of something else?

Apparently not for military aircraft. They were equipped, but intentionally not broadcasting ADS-B Out. However, they were using a Mode-S transponder, so I don't really understand the operational choice not to use ADS-B.

 

[mmx1]

I suspect the scuttlebutt is the basis for the insinuations in this lousy article

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/inside-the-helicopter-that-caused-the-potomac-air-disaster.html

Which, frankly, smacks of sources throwing a fellow aviator under the bus to advocate for more funding for Army aviation.

 

[DanMa1156]

Apparently not for military aircraft. They were equipped, but intentionally not broadcasting ADS-B Out. However, they were using a Mode-S transponder, so I don't really understand the operational choice not to use ADS-B.

Interesting. We had very loose guidance that I pestered the wing for during my DH tour. Our NATOPS also, at the time, had like 1 line about the new capability.

While I was in CNATRA, there was extremely clear SOPs on it: it stays on.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Wait, color me dumb, it isn't?

This was a major thing in GA and in the TH-57 - and even the MH-60S although I'd argue the wing didn't really understand it like CNATRA did - that required upgrades in all those aircraft.

Or am I thinking of something else?

Yes, this was January 2020 and the mandate requires ADS-B OUT to operate in Class A, B, C, and E (above 10k MSL). (plus the Mode C Veil). These were costly upgrades for everyone. But the intent made the National airspace system safer.

ADS-B IN is A feature and through the FIS B services you gain convenience, situational awareness, and safety flight data. Thank you. Whether you want to view it on your iPad or on an aircraft display. A simple $400 puck/ receiver is all you need take advantage of those IN services.

There's also a convenience factor. When doing practice approaches in VMC/VFR to a non-towered airport. There's rarely a need now to bother ATC/ approach control.

 

[DanMa1156]

Yes, this was January 2020 and the mandate requires ADS-B OUT to operate in Class A, B, C, and E (above 10k MSL). (plus the Mode C Veil). These were costly upgrades for everyone. But the intent made the National airspace system safer.

ADS-B IN is A feature and through the FIS B services you gain convenience, situational awareness, and safety flight data. Thank you. Whether you want to view it on your iPad or on an aircraft display. A simple $400 puck/ receiver is all you need take advantage of those IN services.

There's also a convenience factor. When doing practice approaches in VMC/VFR to a non-towered airport. There's rarely a need now to bother ATC/ approach control.

Yeah, I am tracking what it is, and tracking I've NEVER had ADS-B in (the only external traffic warning I've ever had was TCAS in the T-34C) in anything I've flown. IIRC, there was *some* feature of some sort of traffic warning built into the GTN-650 upgrade the TH-57s, but we always had to turn it off because it was intolerable at the OLFs / in a dense training environment.

 

[MIDREGS]

FWIW Every CNATRA IP I’ve flown with has had a Sentry puck suction cupped to a window/canopy to get ADSB-in capability on their iPad. I’ve also been connected to the puck on every flight where I’ve had an iPad.

Unless individual IPs are briefing students, the puck and capability have never been discussed with students (from what I’ve seen). I’ve been GA flying for several years so I am aware of the benefit and try to preach about whenever I can.

 

[sevenhelmet]

I recommend reading the report, at least the portions of it that cover the equipment onboard both aircraft in this mishap. Page 37 is a good place to start.