DoD hiring freeze

[Swanee]

There are few, if any, now. In the olden days (ca 1981) I came off a float and after finishing my leave I was assigned to base facilities where I ran the MCB Lejeune marina. It was nice. I wore a USMC polo shirt, shorts, and boat shoes. The work was never hard and I was treated well. I think it went about three or four months and then we rolled back into our training cycle. Some guys mowed lawns, some guys worked the scullery, and my buddy even got assigned to drive the 2 MarDiv commander around! But, those “good deal” things are pretty much over.

Yeah, all of that stuff has been turned over to MWR, and then cycled to NAF. I was a NAF employee at the MWR Marina on NS Norfolk 20 years ago. We stopped receiving MWR funding and were told we had to offer services at significantly reduced rates compared to what those marinas out in town charged. Thus, the place was getting pretty run-down when I left. That's my concern with a privatized monopoly system like what the Army has. It will deteriorate into the substandard conditions of the BOQs and BEQs we currently see on other bases. What keeps the hotels competitive and nice is that people won't spend money to stay in crummy conditions if they don't have to.

Also, having an E-6 or a Chief/Gunny be the general manager of the marina , with a couple of E-4s, might have helped a little on manpower costs, but not to the extent really MWR needed to properly fund the place. The retired Master Chief who managed it did just fine, and it was a good high school and college job.

 

[ChuckMK23]

BTW on a related note, an urgent message went out today to active duty folks who are pending retirement or otherwise exiting service - to do a SkillsBridge with CBP or ICE in a sworn capacity.

Who's signing up? @Brett327 ?

 

[Griz882]

Yeah, all of that stuff has been turned over to MWR, and then cycled to NAF. I was a NAF employee at the MWR Marina on NS Norfolk 20 years ago. We stopped receiving MWR funding and were told we had to offer services at significantly reduced rates compared to what those marinas out in town charged. Thus, the place was getting pretty run-down when I left. That's my concern with a privatized monopoly system like what the Army has. It will deteriorate into the substandard conditions of the BOQs and BEQs we currently see on other bases. What keeps the hotels competitive and nice is that people won't spend money to stay in crummy conditions if they don't have to.

Also, having an E-6 or a Chief/Gunny be the general manager of the marina , with a couple of E-4s, might have helped a little on manpower costs, but not to the extent really MWR needed to properly fund the place. The retired Master Chief who managed it did just fine, and it was a good high school and college job.

I don’t necessarily disagree, but I believe the army system, having the facilities run by a major hotel chain under their commercial names, keeps lazy operators and managers away. A poor reputation on base will certainly, in my opinion, lead to a poor reputation in the public world.

 

[Mos]

A poor reputation on base will certainly, in my opinion, lead to a poor reputation in the public world.

Case in point, NMCI and Hewlett Packard, but that doesn't seem to have stopped them from winning contracts.

 

[Faded Float Coat]

BTW on a related note, an urgent message went out today to active duty folks who are pending retirement or otherwise exiting service - to do a SkillsBridge with CBP or ICE in a sworn capacity.

Who's signing up? @Brett327 ?

Well, they're about to be funded better than the Marine Corps, because I suppose that makes sense these days 🤷‍♂️

 

[ChuckMK23]

Well, they're about to be funded better than the Marine Corps, because I suppose that makes sense these days 🤷‍♂️

I've read that in the budget just passed 75% of all federal LE funding is going to ICE & CBP...

 

[BigRed389]

I've read that in the budget just passed 75% of all federal LE funding is going to ICE & CBP...

Jebus. I’m all for a secure border but that sounds like some serious overkill.

They really really must hate the FBI

 

[Spekkio]

Without putting words into Brett’s mouth - He is pointing out (or insinuating) that recruiting service members, managing staffing goals, and sustaining base housing/barracks are 3 separate entities in most services. Some of which are managed at a very high level and some authorities are delegated to a lower level. In the Marines, MCRC, Manpower Management, and Installations command (under DC I&L) are all separate 2 Star commands with distinct budget lines.

The privatization of billeting and housing was likely a budget decision under installations command and didn’t include MM’s input on allocations or staffing goals. The notion of “good deal shore duties” for Seaman Timmy and LCpL Schmuckettli likely wasn’t a conversation that installations command would even consider when this budget decision came up. You have no idea what you’re talking about. That’s why people don’t take you seriously.

I understand all the stuff in your first paragraph.

What I was trying to articulate is that the priority of enlisted detailers is to keep sailors in-rate. If the Navy enterprise has a need to detail people to maintain buildings, then that means someone isn't doing their specialty (even though such a duty was typically a 'good deal'). Hence the civilian outsourcing.

The budget decision comes down to "we intake X sailors and need to retain Y sailors for Y billets." And Y is lower when you can outsource building management to civilians. Ergo, your zone B / C goals inherently decrease, but that also dries up billets for people who want to work 3 hour days touring buildings.

 

[Lawman]

I don’t necessarily disagree, but I believe the army system, having the facilities run by a major hotel chain under their commercial names, keeps lazy operators and managers away. A poor reputation on base will certainly, in my opinion, lead to a poor reputation in the public world.

Important distinction….

We don’t have a separate enlisted/officer barracks. Typically the rank has privileges is you get your own room or in a deployed environment you get barracks of a certain category (field grades together, O6/E9/W5 senior special status all living in rooms That are quads instead of bays), something like that.

Same exact thing extends to hotels when you arrive at a new post. Usually anybody <E5 is into a holding barracks. Meanwhile anybody with dependent status or over a set rank is into a hotel. Its installation/unit policy on what entitles a soldier to off post housing and that sets the criteria on what you do when you report. The cost doesn’t change and whatever IHG hotel servicing that post varies in quality by location. Ranier Inn at JBLM was the only one Ive encountered that had any real quality to it. Usually it’s a 3 star Holiday Inn express which may or may not have “extra housing” in what is just old repurposed barracks buildings and a regular building that looks like the hotel you expect. Rucker is a good example of that with most of their “hotel rooms” outside the main building being old 70/80s barracks that have been turned over and they just own the refurbs and cleaning. We all pay the same rate regardless of bed size or if it has a kitchen in a building that was 1974 enlisted barracks.

 

[Hotdogs]

I understand all the stuff in your first paragraph.

What I was trying to articulate is that the priority of enlisted detailers is to keep sailors in-rate. If the Navy enterprise has a need to detail people to maintain buildings, then that means someone isn't doing their specialty (even though such a duty was typically a 'good deal'). Hence the civilian outsourcing.

The budget decision comes down to "we intake X sailors and need to retain Y sailors for Y billets." And Y is lower when you can outsource building management to civilians. Ergo, your zone B / C goals inherently decrease, but that also dries up billets for people who want to work 3 hour days touring buildings.

My comrade, if you truly understood the first part of that paragraph, then you would connect that the rest of your dribble is incoherent mental gymnastics. Most of those augment billets (Barracks/Billet managers) are managed or detailed at or below the 0-6 level by local commands as temporary assignments.

They’re not tracked by manpower agencies nor assigned billet codes for funding (I.e. Boat spaces associated with congressional funding). They have always been associated with the cost of doing business with government quarters or running an installation. Unit personnel taxes have always existed and are akin to ships taxes for embarked units. Detailers wouldn’t have visibility on any of those additional responsibilities. If a billet became of a such a necessity that it generated a requirement for specifically trained personnel, it goes up a completely different chain for funding and billet/MOS allocations. I.e. There is no mechanism for a “budget decision” because it doesn’t exist in the current structure.

 

[sevenhelmet]

My comrade, if you truly understood the first part of that paragraph, then you would connect that the rest of your dribble is incoherent mental gymnastics. Most of those augment billets (Barracks/Billet managers) are managed or detailed at or below the 0-6 level by local commands as temporary assignments.

They’re not tracked by manpower agencies nor assigned billet codes for funding (I.e. Boat spaces associated with congressional funding). They have always been associated with the cost of doing business with government quarters or running an installation. Unit personnel taxes have always existed and are akin to ships taxes for embarked units. Detailers wouldn’t have visibility on any of those additional responsibilities. If a billet became of a such a necessity that it generated a requirement for specifically trained personnel, it goes up a completely different chain for funding and billet/MOS allocations. I.e. There is no mechanism for a “budget decision” because it doesn’t exist in the current structure.

100%. I think there is an inherent loss of flexibility when you outsource a lot of those jobs as well. I STILL, after all this discussion, don't understand how outsourcing jobs like that is "cheaper" for the USG, except that it probably has something to do with "colors of money" and political expediency.

 

[Brett327]

100%. I think there is an inherent loss of flexibility when you outsource a lot of those jobs as well. I STILL, after all this discussion, don't understand how outsourcing jobs like that is "cheaper" for the USG, except that it probably has something to do with "colors of money" and political expediency.

Facilities maintenance is a big part of the savings. For PPV housing, the O&M bill is huge and the PPV partner is on the hook. Need all new A/C units? Not the govt’s problem. Need new roofs? Not the govt’s problem. Need kitchen and bathroom remodels? Not the govt’s problem. Water heater explodes? Not the govt’s problem. Landscaping, irrigation bill, electricity bill, playground updates, etc. you get the point. That all adds up.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Facilities maintenance is a big part of the savings. For PPV housing, the O&M bill is huge and the PPV partner is on the hook. Need all new A/C units? Not the govt’s problem. Need new roofs? Not the govt’s problem. Need kitchen and bathroom remodels? Not the govt’s problem. Water heater explodes? Not the govt’s problem. Landscaping, irrigation bill, electricity bill, playground updates, etc. you get the point. That all adds up.

Understood. Those costs still have to get incurred somewhere though, don't they? So by outsourcing to a business (who presumably needs to make money to stay afloat) wouldn't the bill for incidentals and repairs + profit eventually still be the govt's problem?

 

[ea6bflyr]

Understood. Those costs still have to get incurred somewhere though, don't they? So, wouldn't the bill for incidentals and repairs + profit eventually still be the govt's problem?

Yep...Government is paying one way or another.

 

[Brett327]

Understood. Those costs still have to get incurred somewhere though, don't they? So by outsourcing to a business (who presumably needs to make money to stay afloat) wouldn't the bill for incidentals and repairs + profit eventually still be the govt's problem?

They’re incurred by the PPV partner… they’re responsible for everything, including water mains sewers, and power lines, to a point. That’s all done via the contract, and the companies that do PPV housing all do very nicely in the profit dept. They have to disclose their books so the govt can see that. Remember, that in addition to the terms of the contract, they’re also getting all that BAH. For PMRF, the BAH alone for just 56 housing units is about $2.6M every year.