Military Recruiting Ads Thread

[Spekkio]

The good news is, these roles are plentiful. They pay well too.

The bad news is, they’re for welders, plumbers, electricians, roofers, stonemasons, auto mechanics, etc. and very few 18-24 year olds want to do that work (and/or aren’t mentally suited for it after majoring in “The Dystopian Patriarchy and its Effect on Climate Change”).

That's horseshit.

All those job positions are looking for journeyman and they pay shit for someone with that level of experience. Union nepotism is a huge gatekeeper, which is why the jobs ultimately get performed by illegal immigrants at an extremely high rate. And also... racist trade company owners stereotype which demographics work hard and which ones don't.

The cable guy (kid?) recently came to fix an exterior cable. He went to trade school to be an electrician, but no one will hire him as an apprentice. He was 22. Average age of an electrician in the area is 53.

Probably 80% of sailors I've checked in are over 21 and joined the Navy to get certs and experience because no one will hire a 20 year old apprentice to work a car garage, even with trade school. That cable guy is probably in the Navy by now since he asked me about joining as an electrician.

Oh, and for the guys who were working, an E3-E4 paycheck with full healthcare and retirement benefits is a huge pay increase.

I've had plumbers come to my house a half dozen times and only one had an apprentice, which was his son (surprise). It's not because no one wants to be a plumber, it's because no one is going to spend time and money to train an eventual competitor who is just going to work slow and require close supervision to avoid costly mistakes in the interim.

But hey, at least you can have a thrown out back and knees by age 45 if you're lucky enough to have a hook.

There's a reason why the silent generation told their boomer children to escape the trades, and I take issue with college educated and otherwise successful people who look at the industry through rose-colored glasses as an easy path to getting rich. It's a physically demanding career with compensation that scales poorly, and there's a very difficult barrier to entry.

 

[PhrogPhlyer]

racist trade company owners stereotype which demographics work hard and which ones don't.

Not sure which one's you've worked for, but in the Heavy Civil Construction, Electrical, and Maritime Construction I've worked with, this is not an accurate portrayal. Jobsites over the past couple decades are very diverse, in the best non-political usage of the word.

 

[wink]

Just when did the trades stop hiring apprentices or young people, trained, but green, not journeymen? I obviously happened after my youth, 1975-ish. Of course you will find differences in career fields. Major in Recreation, or Art History you will find a harder time finding a job than others. Same in the trades. I taught in a High School technical education Aviation program. It did not result in an A&P ticket but did require a semester of interning. Our kids got various technical jobs as high school students. Many, on graduating went to work in aircraft maintenance shops as apprentices or mechanic helpers, which led to an A&P license or follow on aviation maintenance tech training. Had one kid work for a helicopter blade overhaul and manufacturing company. Before he graduated high school he had been issued his FAA engineering QC stamp and continued employment.

 

[Spekkio]

Just when did the trades stop hiring apprentices or young people, trained, but green, not journeymen?

The 1990s.

 

[CommodoreMid]

Side note, don’t feel like finding the link at the moment, but this notion that we have a vast majority of college students spending their time studying feminist studies with a minor in underwater basket weaving is a myth. Most US bachelor degree seeking types are majoring in things in the financial sector or health care sector. Liberal arts are well below 15%, and by the way liberal arts includes those “woke” disciplines like history. And yet we still have an employment problem.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Having a sign for hire is only part of the story.

So you're a 19 year old college student and see a help wanted sign on Walmart. You want to work evenings and weekends, but they're hiring a part time role for Tues through Thurs 7-1200.

As for full time roles that have career growth potential, please point me to the copious amount of Indeed.com ads asking for 18-24 year old workers with a high school diploma and no job experience, because I don't see them.

Well, every single one of my daughters friends who wanted a part time job has had no issues getting one in just a few weeks, I had my daughter ask her friend who she is over with today what the starting pay was at the job she started 6 months ago, it was 23/hr. She started when she was 17 and it is nights/weekends at a local (not chain) sandwich shop.

There are many jobs on indeed with career potential, it just depends on the career you want to have, some won't require any education past HS, however I would say most jobs with career opportunities would require further training, at least some type of tech training.

Trade jobs were mentioned, I know many who have gone into HVAC/Electrical/Plumbing with no real education past HS. The past 2 times I have had to hire plumbers to do work at my house both were youngish, one I ran into later as he started working for a competitor it just worked out better for him. The auto shop near me is always struggling to find people to work and learn, the body shop is the same way.

A little bit of effort combined with realistic expectations really helps out.

 

[Swanee]

Side note, don’t feel like finding the link at the moment, but this notion that we have a vast majority of college students spending their time studying feminist studies with a minor in underwater basket weaving is a myth. Most US bachelor degree seeking types are majoring in things in the financial sector or health care sector. Liberal arts are well below 15%, and by the way liberal arts includes those “woke” disciplines like history. And yet we still have an employment problem.

Also as a side note- I paid for my BA in Theater by working in the theater industry after graduating. My "worthless woke" degree was pretty lucrative for me. I made more money designing and then running lights for a ballet show in four months than the IT guy did in a year.

 

[DanMa1156]

That's horseshit.

All those job positions are looking for journeyman and they pay shit for someone with that level of experience. Union nepotism is a huge gatekeeper, which is why the jobs ultimately get performed by illegal immigrants at an extremely high rate. And also... racist trade company owners stereotype which demographics work hard and which ones don't.

The cable guy (kid?) recently came to fix an exterior cable. He went to trade school to be an electrician, but no one will hire him as an apprentice. He was 22. Average age of an electrician in the area is 53.

Probably 80% of sailors I've checked in are over 21 and joined the Navy to get certs and experience because no one will hire a 20 year old apprentice to work a car garage, even with trade school. That cable guy is probably in the Navy by now since he asked me about joining as an electrician.

Oh, and for the guys who were working, an E3-E4 paycheck with full healthcare and retirement benefits is a huge pay increase.

I've had plumbers come to my house a half dozen times and only one had an apprentice, which was his son (surprise). It's not because no one wants to be a plumber, it's because no one is going to spend time and money to train an eventual competitor who is just going to work slow and require close supervision to avoid costly mistakes in the interim.

But hey, at least you can have a thrown out back and knees by age 45 if you're lucky enough to have a hook.

There's a reason why the silent generation told their boomer children to escape the trades, and I take issue with college educated and otherwise successful people who look at the industry through rose-colored glasses as an easy path to getting rich. It's a physically demanding career with compensation that scales poorly, and there's a very difficult barrier to entry.

I've got a cousin who is a recent-ish HS graduate. This wasn't his experience - his HS had a pathway directly into the Unions - perhaps that's atypical, but it shows they are willing to take HS grads with their "shop" experience. He had every opportunity to get into the trades, but his lack of work effort ("what do you mean you want me to dig the ditch to lay the wire?!") and drug (marijuana) abuse had the Union cut ties with him - and poof - out went his opportunities in the unionized trades.

 

[Random8145]

Well, every single one of my daughters friends who wanted a part time job has had no issues getting one in just a few weeks, I had my daughter ask her friend who she is over with today what the starting pay was at the job she started 6 months ago, it was 23/hr. She started when she was 17 and it is nights/weekends at a local (not chain) sandwich shop.

There are many jobs on indeed with career potential, it just depends on the career you want to have, some won't require any education past HS, however I would say most jobs with career opportunities would require further training, at least some type of tech training.

Trade jobs were mentioned, I know many who have gone into HVAC/Electrical/Plumbing with no real education past HS. The past 2 times I have had to hire plumbers to do work at my house both were youngish, one I ran into later as he started working for a competitor it just worked out better for him. The auto shop near me is always struggling to find people to work and learn, the body shop is the same way.

A little bit of effort combined with realistic expectations really helps out.

Auto repair I can understand because you can end up having to work on a lot of old rusted out pieces of junk that are difficult to fix, and then there can be time pressure because the customer needs it done now.

 

[PhrogPhlyer]

Auto repair I can understand because you can end up having to work on a lot of old rusted out pieces of junk that are difficult to fix, and then there can be time pressure because the customer needs it done now.

Maybe this is true for some independent shops, but the huge number of dealer maintenance folks do quite well, and I don't ever see them in a rush.

 

[wink]

The 1990s.

Hum. Time must be standing still. Your observations are not mine.

 

[Spekkio]

Trade jobs were mentioned, I know many who have gone into HVAC/Electrical/Plumbing with no real education past HS. The past 2 times I have had to hire plumbers to do work at my house both were youngish, one I ran into later as he started working for a competitor it just worked out better for him. The auto shop near me is always struggling to find people to work and learn, the body shop is the same way.

I've got a cousin who is a recent-ish HS graduate. This wasn't his experience - his HS had a pathway directly into the Unions - perhaps that's atypical, but it shows they are willing to take HS grads with their "shop" experience. He had every opportunity to get into the trades, but his lack of work effort ("what do you mean you want me to dig the ditch to lay the wire?!") and drug (marijuana) abuse had the Union cut ties with him - and poof - out went his opportunities in the unionized trades.

Yeah, I got it, everyone knows a guy who made it quick and easy in the trades.

The average time it takes someone to get an apprenticeship is 2-4 years. Before that, they have to beg and plead as a helper doing back-breaking labor for less pay than working at Walmart until someone gives them a break. As an apprentice they are still making shit but at least have a path to eventually break out. On the whole, it's exceptionally rare for people in the trades to be making decent money before they hit their upper 20s / lower 30s. By then, even liberal arts majors have, on average, found full-time careers that make 150-200% more than the trades with better benefits and less wear-and-tear on their body.

And that's people's frustration - they went to trade school for something and they have to beg and be thankful that someone will hire them, and that doesn't count towards meaningful experience to land a job doing what they paid money to do. It's not laziness, it's that digging ditches for 10 hours a day in the summer at minimum wage doesn't get people meaningful experience toward becoming a plumber, electrician, or whatever. Bonus if the foreman regularly puts the "kids" down because of the "you have to pay your dues" culture. And yes, many of their co-workers will be former criminals, alcoholics, or drug addicts.

Apprenticeships cost a lot of money. When there is an apprentice, the journeyman training him has to work at 75-80% speed to teach while they're also paying for the extra person.

To circle back to my point - it's tough out there for most young adults under 25, and "just join the trades" is like saying "just learn to code." 5 minutes on Google will tell you the demand and path to easy street isn't nearly what people think it is, and it's usually someone with a college degree working in an air conditioned office who utters the phrase. There is the same ubiquitous "do-loop" of "will hire apprentice, needs 1-3 years experience" as there is for entry-level office positions requiring 3 years experience, and there's a long road of eating shit in the interim. You have to really want it.

These are the people who join the Navy to get their certs and experience. I know hundreds of them.

There are exceptions, but it's highly location dependent and still relies on luck.

 

[Spekkio]

Maybe this is true for some independent shops, but the huge number of dealer maintenance folks do quite well, and I don't ever see them in a rush.

To put numbers on "do quite well," the average starting salary for a dealership mechanic is around $34k, with the overall average being $54k. The high end of the range is $70-80k but that's usually in higher cost of living areas so they're not seeing a better QOL.

That sounds good when you're 24 but it's not supporting a family in your 30s.

Meanwhile, the average starting salary of a college graduate is $55k and jumps to over $80k in their 30s - 50s.

My FIL ditched being a mechanic when he got hired by the city to monitor water meters for twice the pay, full health care, and a pension.

 

[PhrogPhlyer]

The high end of the range is $70-80k but that's usually in higher cost of living areas

I personally know several IBEW members who, with overtime, are making over $250K, and have been for several years.
And the average work efficiency for all trades combined in Manhattan is around 35%.
Part of why the the Statue of Liberty/Ellis Island retrofit project and the New World Trade Center were each more than $1B in overruns.

There were many Union tradesmen I have worked with (Iron Workers, Steel Workers, Dockbuilders, Operating Engineers, and Electricians) who exemplify what Union Labor should stand for. I was glad to have them on my jobsite. These deserve every dollar they earn.

Unfortunately, there were also the others... slugs who show up and there is nothing you can do about it. And others who would not hold a job anywhere other than being related to someone in the Local's leadership. And they are pulling down $80K-$120K on up in the NYC metro area.
I had a shop steward, easily 425-475 lb of useless blob, who just sat in a chair for his shift and yelled at any management because we were not union members. I don't even want to know what he got paid.

 

[Random8145]

My experience working in the machining industry is exactly what Spekkio outlines. It is VERY hard to find real training and yes you deal with a lot of drug addicts/alcoholics/racists/occasional criminals. Everyone wants super highly-skilled machinists but no one wants to train them, primarily due to cost and because oftentimes it results in you having now trained a competitor who heads out and starts their own shop. Or just goes to another shop.

Then a lot of your coworkers can be grumpy old racist fucks. They also can be MEAN, like throw-their-coffee mug-across-the-floor screaming and cursing (well that was the boss) or calling you all manner of names when you make a mistake. Then there's the working conditions, which can, if you are a right-winger, open your eyes much more to the importance of regulations and even unions for worker protection. Many shops are not air conditioned, which is just great in the hot summer. And many are filthy and poorly lit too. And then there's the noxious fumes and dusts you have to watch out for. Also the LOUD noises.

I am very fortunate to work in a place that has air conditioning, friendly management, good safety standards, and ran the riff-raff (drug addict and criminal types) out, but all of that is fairly new for it (it definitely didn't used to be that way!). Although I should really say "air conditioning" because they often don't run it enough to really keep the place cool, more just so people don't cook. And sometimes portions of it break down (the air conditioning for the main offices mysteriously always works however). But young people are not going to put up with all that crap and for little benefit and pay, so the trade has to a good degree shot itself in the foot.