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Navy/Marine/Army/Differences in procedures and mindset

PhrogPhlyer

Two heads are better than one.
pilot
None
As for putting all rotary wing training under Army control, having separate helicopter programs provides more redundancy and flexibility.
There are distinct differences between Naval (USN/USMC/USCG), Army and Air Force aviators, not so much as being pilots, but in the mentality behind how you approach your aircraft and mission.

For me, the biggest challenge when going from Marine to Army aviation was the comparative rigidness and lack of flexibility you had in the air.
You simply can not fly an Army aircraft with the same mentality as a Marine aircraft.
I found this true with both FW and RW.
The subconscious expectations between the two pilots have subtle differences, and in ways that may not be discovered during a pre-flight briefing.
Having at least two (Naval & Army/AF) is essential to prepare the young aviator to move to tactical units within their service with a strong establishment of being a Naval/Army/AF aviator.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
There are distinct differences between Naval (USN/USMC/USCG), Army and Air Force aviators, not so much as being pilots, but in the mentality behind how you approach your aircraft and mission.

For me, the biggest challenge when going from Marine to Army aviation was the comparative rigidness and lack of flexibility you had in the air.
You simply can not fly an Army aircraft with the same mentality as a Marine aircraft.
I found this true with both FW and RW.
The subconscious expectations between the two pilots have subtle differences, and in ways that may not be discovered during a pre-flight briefing.
Having at least two (Naval & Army/AF) is essential to prepare the young aviator to move to tactical units within their service with a strong establishment of being a Naval/Army/AF aviator.
Can you go into a little more detail on the differences?
 

PhrogPhlyer

Two heads are better than one.
pilot
None
Can you go into a little more detail on the differences?

I can only speak to what I observed based upon my experiences flying Marine then Army aircraft, so this may not be what others may or may not have experienced.

First, I found that the NATOPS basically told you the few things you could not do, and as long as you flew following the listed procedures and limitations you could almost anything you wished. The TM, overlaid with the ATM (Aircrew Training Manual) told you what you could do, and you never did anything else.

For example, for a full year we were prohibited from doing touch and goes with the C-12. Why? Because the ATM had no procedure for a T&G. There was a procedure for landing, and a procedure for taking off, but not one for combining them. It took Mother Rucker a year to determine a T&G was safe, as attested to by every student pilot IN THE WORLD was doing them.

Tactically, the Army was riveted in the procedures used during Vietnam. Flying dash-4 of a four ship flight in the AH-1F, I saw I was getting a little sucked with 3. At a check point I decreased my radius of turn to close in on 3. The IP I was flying at started screaming on the IC about how the other aircraft had cleared the route and by my slight cutting of the corner I was putting us at risk. At the debrief I discovered that, at least in this Company, they had no concept of combat spread and flew straight lines behind each other, stating “We did this in Vietnam.”

On my first pref-light of the Cobra, the IP asked me one of those mundane/expected flight school questions, “what is the path of air as it goes though the engine?” The flight school regurgitation had nothing to do with combat survivability. I of course answered the blaw blaw blaw. But then explained that was not the important learning element, which was “How many engines do you have?” With only one, If it fails, you land, period, no options.

And formation flying in the Army was as “same way-same-day” as it can get. Coming from Naval Aviation where tight precise formation is part of your lifeblood, this was a whole new world.

In the Army, aircraft are just another combat arm, or more precisely, just another rifle. There was little discussion of the combined arms concept, just go that way and do today's mission. In addition to the whole WOPA thinking anyone Commissioned is less than whale shit and is to be discounted immediately.

Also, Army Aviation is very regimented in-duties as an aviator. The Maintenance Check Pilot, IP. SIP, Instrument Instructor, etc. are all distinct duties that never cross. Where in Naval Aviation you might hold several of those duties at the same time. At one time I was a HAC, DOSS, Maint Chk Pilot, SAR Chk Pilot, and a few other things at the same time. This is unheard of in the Army.

These are but a few of many examples that make it interesting at least, should one change services as an aviator. I am not saying one is better than the other, just that the mentalities are different. And I personally prefer the Naval Aviation approach.

Again, this is based on my experiences and may not be what others have experienced.
 

Mos

Well-Known Member
None
First, I found that the NATOPS basically told you the few things you could not do, and as long as you flew following the listed procedures and limitations you could almost anything you wished. The TM, overlaid with the ATM (Aircrew Training Manual) told you what you could do, and you never did anything else.
This is traditionally what I've heard wrt USN vs USAF. Not surprising that Army would be similarly rigid when the USAF originated in the USAAF.
 

ChuckMK23

5 bullets veteran!
pilot
This checks with my experiences with Army aviation and pilots I have known over the years - great summary. One isn't better than the other service wise - and culture is of course important. Given the Army has had over 5,000 aircraft its a big lift keeping operational consistency between active, Guard, Reserves, etc. Similarly, the AF operates over 5,000 aircraft.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
This is traditionally what I've heard wrt USN vs USAF. Not surprising that Army would be similarly rigid when the USAF originated in the USAAF.

I've only dealt only peripherally with Army aviation but after a year of living, breathing and eating 'Army' they are far more rigid and rules focused than the USAF.
 

PhrogPhlyer

Two heads are better than one.
pilot
None
Given the Army has had over 5,000 aircraft its a big lift keeping operational consistency between active, Guard, Reserves, etc. Similarly, the AF operates over 5,000 aircraft.
As of last August, I don't have a current count.

The USAF operates approximately 5,151 aircraft. The USN/USMC (NATOPS World) operates roughly 4,000 aircraft. The US Army maintains around 3,750 aircraft.

It's an Army thing, nothing to do with fleet size or operational commitment.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
As of last August, I don't have a current count.

The USAF operates approximately 5,151 aircraft. The USN/USMC (NATOPS World) operates roughly 4,000 aircraft. The US Army maintains around 3,750 aircraft.

It's an Army thing, nothing to do with fleet size or operational commitment.
Is it a product of having warrants do most of the flying? Even if the kid has a high ASVAB, going straight high-school-to-flight-school is a big leap. There's a reason there's so many jokes about the insane things some junior enlisted do. I imagine the Army wants warrants of roughly the same age to stay in their boxes, even if their insignia is shinier than their peers'.

That "special trust and confidence" thing may be chuckled at, but sometimes it's a big deal.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
As of last August, I don't have a current count.

The USAF operates approximately 5,151 aircraft. The USN/USMC (NATOPS World) operates roughly 4,000 aircraft. The US Army maintains around 3,750 aircraft.

It's an Army thing, nothing to do with fleet size or operational commitment.
The army is up a few hundred aircraft for 2025, but we shouldn’t forget the approximately 800 aircraft in the Army National Guard and (guessing) at least a hundred in the reserve.
 
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