T-45C Replacement

[Faded Float Coat]

This is pretty accurate compared to what I’ve heard about our cones. Probably lower DQ because PLM is just really easy.

Makes sense. There's A LOT more pilot-development that occurs during FCLP and CQ than just the ball-flying. PLM takes care of that, and no argument from me on that front. I wonder what could be done to help build some of those other air-sense kinda things back into the studs. I've long thought that a useful and different way to measure pilot experience would be to count hours and sorties. The so-called ritual of flight (briefing, dressing, walking, pre-flighting, ground admin, all the stuff) is super important for young pilots, and maybe more so than 2.0s in BARALT HOLD.

 

[Gatordev]

The so-called ritual of flight (briefing, dressing, walking, pre-flighting, ground admin, all the stuff) is super important for young pilots, and maybe more so than 2.0s in BARALT HOLD.

When i did my stint as a contractor, I was chatting with another pilot/contractor/retired O-6 with only a couple hundred hours more than me at the time (all rotary). He asked me how many hours I would get flying EMS. There is no one answer in the industry due to a multitude of reasons, but at that time, my base was very busy, but our legs were short. I told him about 100 hours/year (our yearly time has increased since then), but sometimes in the winter you might only get 2-4 hours a month due to weather. The look on his face was one of shock. He couldn't believe how low that time was.

I then tried to explain to him that for every mission we fly, it's three legs, which includes all of the flying parts that matter (start-up, T/O, approach, landing, night cals on NVGs single-piloted...he was a HS guy...etc) x3. How long the enroute portion of the flight while on autopilot wasn't really a measure of experience.

I don't think he really heard a word I was saying and seemed to keep focusing on the number.

 

[taxi1]

I don't think he really heard a word I was saying and seemed to keep focusing on the number.

Flying gliders is like that. Not a lot of laps around the pattern or landings, but every single one is dead stick. Every takeoff is close in form flight (tow).

 

[SynixMan]

I have the same answer as @JustAGuy . In fact, anecdotally I hear that DQ rates have decreased and GPA/boarding rate has improved meaningfully for FRS students (including those that didn't do T-45 CQ). However, I also hear that other areas have shown worse performance (taxiing, pattern, comms, etc.) compared to those that saw the boat in the T-45.

0% shocked on this. We all hand waive the admin stuff.

 

[Swanee]

0% shocked on this. We all hand waive the admin stuff.

This is hugely apparent in the RPA world. It's a problem in the USAF, but we're getting better.

I recently ran into the dude running the MQ-25 program. Based on what he was telling me I would have no confidence in those guys around the boat. They're going to get someone killed.

 

[TheBirdy]

Don’t have the numbers, but I believe RAG DQ rates have INCREASED (will have to dig for the ppt). My 0.02, the studs winging out of VTJ are an inferior product compared to about 5 years ago, with the CQ cut, SEM cut, a much shorter syllabus in terms of flight hours, etc.

When I attended TFGT at the schoolhouse last year, 3 RAG paddles told us 3 VTJ paddles that the students struggle hard with basic Admin / TAC Admin, and they’re spending more time debriefing that opposed to actual tactics..

 

[Faded Float Coat]

When I attended TFGT at the schoolhouse last year, 3 RAG paddles told us 3 VTJ paddles that the students struggle hard with basic Admin / TAC Admin, and they’re spending more time debriefing that opposed to actual tactics..

To some degree this has and will always be the case, at least with respect to perceptions. VTJ guys bitch(ed) about the product from Primary. FRS guys bitch(ed) about the product from VTJ. Fleet guys bitch(ed) about the product from the FRS. FRS CO bitch(ed) about the lack of hours and quals coming back to instruct at the FRS - and so on and so on.

Not suggesting there aren't problems - there are. Just providing some old-ish guy perspective on a similar refrain.

 

[TheBirdy]

Agreed. Everytime we bitch about the studs, I can’t help but think this is my generations “back in my day…*waives fist angrily*”

 

[Python]

Don’t have the numbers, but I believe RAG DQ rates have INCREASED (will have to dig for the ppt). My 0.02, the studs winging out of VTJ are an inferior product compared to about 5 years ago, with the CQ cut, SEM cut, a much shorter syllabus in terms of flight hours, etc.

This is undeniably true. This is the weakest the syllabus has ever been with the lowest number of hours.

Lots of “every generation complains” but at some point theres actually an objective decrease in quality, and you can point to very clear root causes.

 

[Brett327]

We all have a tendency to compare status quo to some platonic ideal. Time to train has been a beast for a variety of complex reasons during the past couple decades. With leadership having to decide among increasingly risky options. The question to ask is whether there’s a mechanism for the end user in this process to raise their hand and say that they’ve reached a safety or efficacy threshold… and is leadership responsive to that message when it happens.

I’m a bit of a skeptic on the whole GRGB thing, but it is good for some things. Are we embracing the red, as we have been encouraged to do? I hope so.

 

[Faded Float Coat]

I think it's entirely possible we see an increase in wholly preventable mishaps that trace their causes back to basic skill-based errors, and/or head-scratching errors in judgement. VTJ FCLP and CQ did a lot to identify and either fix or remove those with a propensity for jackassery. It was not perfect, but it was something. PLM obviates the need to prove you can fly the ball, but what other training environment can be used as a suck-screen?

 

[ChuckMK23]

I think it's entirely possible we see an increase in wholly preventable mishaps that trace their causes back to basic skill-based errors, and/or head-scratching errors in judgement. VTJ FCLP and CQ did a lot to identify and either fix or remove those with a propensity for jackassery. It was not perfect, but it was something. PLM obviates the need to prove you can fly the ball, but what other training environment can be used as a suck-screen?

Is there a material difference between human beings at this level or - as is the case in the airlibne world I'm told, its just a matter that some need more training on this or that?

 

[Python]

I think it's entirely possible we see an increase in wholly preventable mishaps that trace their causes back to basic skill-based errors, and/or head-scratching errors in judgement. VTJ FCLP and CQ did a lot to identify and either fix or remove those with a propensity for jackassery. It was not perfect, but it was something. PLM obviates the need to prove you can fly the ball, but what other training environment can be used as a suck-screen?

Much more than just FCLP and CQ were gutted from the VTJ syllabus. All events that provide added value for airmanship, judgment, and flying skills.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Is there a material difference between human beings at this level or - as is the case in the airlibne world I'm told, its just a matter that some need more training on this or that?

They just aren’t getting to the FRS with enough hours and experience in some cases. Others do just fine, but I’d agree that the low end of the bell curve is worse. The comparative performance of the average student is hard to quantify. The tactics these kids are being introduced to, even at the watered-down FRS level, are much more significant and complex than anything I did as a CONE……just stay in combat spread and maybe shoot a couple times, don’t lose sight…..that was about the expectation for us back then. So I’d say the explanation is more complex. There are 100% students who really struggle in admin like you wouldnt have seen a decade or more ago. But i think the VTs are being pressured to process more students through their syllabi, and perhaps they aren’t seeing enough of the students in their comparatively shorter VTJ syllabus to understand. Add in all of the red stripes, studs going out of currency, coming back and relearning……but maybe more than that, even though it appears the currency is the issue. Tactical incomplete?