This here's my (flooded) county!

[Griz882]

This is a bit of a tempest in a teapot, but the story keeps gaining traction. Most of you have probably heard some of it - an area helicopter pilot flew to NC and eventually helped a woman to safety but was threatened with arrest by a small town fire official. Considering there was, within 12 hours of this event, a major citizen-helicopter aid effort established I am wondering what the take is from the AW side?

Also @ChuckMK23…why doesn’t the CAP have helicopters or link in members with helicopters? Seems like this should be their mission.

 

[TacticalTater]

People providing assets that local agencies don't have, on top of it guy is a former fire fighter as well. Seems like a real short sighted dismissal of an asset when people are struggling and the local fire dept. has no air resources.

 

[sevenhelmet]

People providing assets that local agencies don't have, on top of it guy is a former fire fighter as well. Seems like a real short sighted dismissal of an asset when people are struggling and the local fire dept. has no air resources.

Unfortunately, there are always people who prioritize gatekeeping over mission. I knew plenty of them when I was on AD as well.

I was just reading how some HAM radio operators were getting their panties in a wad over unlicensed use of radios during the emergency- never mind that the FARs allow leeway for that.

 

[IKE]

My only question is whether the pilot checked for a TFR. If there wasn't one, seems like overreaching a-holery from the emergency services folks, otherwise, bad on him.

 

[Griz882]

My only question is whether the pilot checked for a TFR. If there wasn't one, seems like overreaching a-holery from the emergency services folks, otherwise, bad on him.

There was no TFR at the time, nor was one requested. One went in hours later.

 

[Random8145]

This is a bit of a tempest in a teapot, but the story keeps gaining traction. Most of you have probably heard some of it - an area helicopter pilot flew to NC and eventually helped a woman to safety but was threatened with arrest by a small town fire official. Considering there was, within 12 hours of this event, a major citizen-helicopter aid effort established I am wondering what the take is from the AW side?

Also @ChuckMK23…why doesn’t the CAP have helicopters or link in members with helicopters? Seems like this should be their mission.

Local officials can be some of the most comically/absurdly tyrannical when it comes to people infringing on their "turf." Reminds me of the one community where there was this beat-up old set of stairs that were not safe. So a local guy repaired them or built new ones (I forget). Local officials immediately shut down access because those stairs need to be inspected by a special official to ensure they were safe (never mind the lack of safety of the prior ones).

Then my favorite, a community where there were a bunch of potholes that the local government for some reason couldn't/wouldn't fix. So some guys get some concrete and supplies and fixed all the potholes themselves. BIG MISTAKE. The local government wanted to charge them but the problem was they couldn't quite figure out what to charge them with.

While I can't say for sure what I'd have done in the situation with the pilot, I'd like to think I'd have gone and rescued the husband, told the fire chief dude to F off and taken back off again.

 

[Gatordev]

On the one hand, it can be an issue if some random dude shows up and starts clobbering LZs while not talking to anyone. There's a huge FEMA chain of command, and usually some sort of aviation over-watch asset if it's a populated area. The aviation over-watch may not exist in a less-populated area. There wasn't one for Helene in FL and GA, but there also weren't any TFRs (amazingly) except for the various campaign and VIP NOTAMs.

That said, even when there is coordination, it's quite the shit-show. Ian had a TFR, CBP Air & Marine "coordinating" entry (if you want to call it that), and there was all manner of aviation assets flying around. I think most of the comms you'd hear was either the HEMS guys talking on A2A, like we always do, or random calls on the CTAFs where the towers were closed. Otherwise it was the wild west.

And yet, somehow, we all managed to help people get to where they needed to go. As long as you aren't blocking a hospital pad without prior coordination, or aren't flying around erratically like you have 50 hours in model, take the help!

I'm with @sevenhelmet ...seems like someone wanting to exert their dominance in their tiny rice bowl, and a township that can't just admit maybe it was a slight over-reaction.

 

[hscs]

What authority does a county sheriff have to do this? This is akin to citing someone who parks on the shoulder to render aid during an accident on the highway.

 

[Gatordev]

What authority does a county sheriff have to do this? This is akin to citing someone who parks on the shoulder to render aid during an accident on the highway.

The Sheriff would have the authority to arrest. It might not go anywhere, but it would still be very inconvenient for the good Samaritan.

 

[OscarMyers]

I can't blame the folks operating the LZ to be pissed when some rando shows up and takes up time on deck. Joe Schmo with a Helo PPL shows up executing high risk rescues could make a bad situation worse.

That being said, there was probably a better way to resolve the situation while not looking like a rice-bowl keeping asshole. I'd chock it up to the LZ ground crews not having the information, bandwidth and or knowledge to handle uncoordinated assets and using the only tool they knew how to wield (arrest authority).

How it should have went down. "Thanks for the rescue, go scoop up that other person/give us their location and RTB so we can get you vetted, briefed and rolled into the rescue plan." Depending on the level of risk they're willing to incur.

 

[taxi1]

Hurricane Milton is flexing in the gulf and telling Hurricane Helene to hold its beer.

Forecast path trending south of Tampa and St Pete now, thank goodness, but not good if you live down there.

This is on Twitter.

 

[Brett327]

As someone with a little FEMA/ Emergency Management stink on me, I will say that having some rando show up on scene like this would be a nightmare for the on-scene commander, so while the Fire Chief's reaction may have been overblown, it comes from a legitimate place of concern. However well intentioned, the added risk that this helo guy inserts into the big picture effort is just not worth the small amount of help his efforts would produce. At a very minimum, he should have consulted with officials. That he didn't, or didn't know that would be a good idea, tells me he had no business being there and could have caused a lot more harm than help.

 

[hscs]

As someone with a little FEMA/ Emergency Management stink on me, I will say that having some rando show up on scene like this would be a nightmare for the on-scene commander, so while the Fire Chief's reaction may have been overblown, it comes from a legitimate place of concern. However well intentioned, the added risk that this helo guy inserts into the big picture effort is just not worth the small amount of help his efforts would produce. At a very minimum, he should have consulted with officials. That he didn't, or didn't know that would be a good idea, tells me he had no business being there and could have caused a lot more harm than help.

Yes, agreed but it never ends well when you try and discipline someone for helping others. We failed miserably during Katrina when we went hard in the paint on an H3 pilot who stayed on station a few extra hours picking people off of roofs. Didn’t help that he was grounded and told to run the dog pound on Mainside.

 

[Brett327]

Yes, agreed but it never ends well when you try and discipline someone for helping others. We failed miserably during Katrina when we went hard in the paint on an H3 pilot who stayed on station a few extra hours picking people off of roofs. Didn’t help that he was grounded and told to run the dog pound on Mainside.

Sure. Not condoning the threats, but I understand the incredibly frustrating circumstances that led to it. Put it this way, how serious a risk must the fire chief have perceived the helo guy’s presence to be that it caused the chief to respond in this way?

We don’t know that this was a rice bowl thing. The fire chief very well could have thought, “holy shit, this guy is going to get himself and others killed and I’d better find a way to stop him.” Just as plausible a scenario, IMO.

 

[Griz882]

Sure. Not condoning the threats, but I understand the incredibly frustrating circumstances that led to it. Put it this way, how serious a risk must the fire chief have perceived the helo guy’s presence to be that it caused the chief to respond in this way?

We don’t know that this was a rice bowl thing. The fire chief very well could have thought, “holy shit, this guy is going to get himself and others killed and I’d better find a way to stop him.” Just as plausible a scenario, IMO.

I get the sentiment and it isn’t off. There are quite a few videos about this now. The pilot has law enforcement and volunteer fire experience and was apparently trying to set up frequencies and LZ procedures with the on scene FD when the chief showed up.