Sergrad - How does it affect your career?

[BOMR822]

Greetings all. I am curious about how Sergrad affects the longevity of a career in the Navy, and how it works into shore/sea tours in jet-land. I am slowly (but surely) getting closer to the end of advanced, and there are several Sergrads nearing the end of their year at my squadron. Rumor has it that their replacements will be picked once they transfer out to the FRS about the same time I am scheduled to complete. I have gotten gouge that this opportunity to instruct right out of advanced is a career killer in the long run, and affects promotability, and screws up established timelines and milestones. Is there any truth to this? I recognize that this is outside of my control, I am just hoping to get a better picture of how this year commitment instructing prior to the FRS plays into everything. I don't know what I don't know, and the gouge seems a little too doom and gloom to be trustworthy. Appreciate it, thanks.

 

[Griz882]

I know at least two Sergrads who went on to command VF/VFA squadrons. Add to that, my primary instructor (back in the 1980’s) was a multi-engine plow-back and he retired as an admiral.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Greetings all. I am curious about how Sergrad affects the longevity of a career in the Navy, and how it works into shore/sea tours in jet-land. I am slowly (but surely) getting closer to the end of advanced, and there are several Sergrads nearing the end of their year at my squadron. Rumor has it that their replacements will be picked once they transfer out to the FRS about the same time I am scheduled to complete. I have gotten gouge that this opportunity to instruct right out of advanced is a career killer in the long run, and affects promotability, and screws up established timelines and milestones. Is there any truth to this? I recognize that this is outside of my control, I am just hoping to get a better picture of how this year commitment instructing prior to the FRS plays into everything. I don't know what I don't know, and the gouge seems a little too doom and gloom to be trustworthy. Appreciate it, thanks.

I would suggest you find actual mentors and not go off rumors or what you find on reddit.

 

[Hopeful Hoya]

My previous skipper (VFA) was a SERGRAD. I was also a SERGRAD, but for a relatively short duration due to T-45 Blade-Gate kicking off right as I finished the IUT. Has not impacted my career timing as of yet.

It was super rewarding to be able to fly with students and teach, and a nice break before going back to the bottom of the totem pole as a CAT 1.

The one thing I would ask you CoC about, is if you do SERGRAD, and get the T-45 IP qual, does that make you more or less likely to get pulled for T-45 IP IA orders down the line? As I'm sure you know, they are pulling dudes from flying Shore Tours (mainly RAG instructors) to go be IPs in Meridian or Kingsville for 6 months, and from what I heard previous T-45 IP experience was desired. I was in a fleet billet and lucky enough to avoid the draft, but it may be worth asking your Skipper if he has heard anything from CNATRA.

 

[Rockriver]

Career wise? Don't have a clue. I'm not sure I even ever heard the term "Golden Path" back in my day.

However...If I could roll back the clock and do it all over again, I would have requested orders as a SERGRAD. I would have ultimately reported to the RAG - and later to my fleet squadron - a more experienced, seasoned aviator. I would have hit the fleet as a senior JG or possibly an LT and likely avoided the jobs assigned to the most junior of junior officers, including that one job that is high profile, yet meaningless in terms of developing leadership skills, Coffee Mess Officer. Then again, maybe you like cleaning out reefers and chasing down everyone's favorite geedunk. It is great training if you aspire to a post-Navy job in the food service industry.

To me, the real downside of SERGRADing is the delay in getting to fly a gray aircraft.

 

[cfam]

I know several VAQ guys that were SERGRADs and are current VAQ COs or XOs. Sure, it will make your timing slightly more complicated, but you won’t be the first to have done it. The detailers should account for that when assigning your timing for the FRS and picking your first fleet squadron.

Generally speaking, your performance throughout your career should help counter any timing issues. I’ve done a few very non-standard things throughout my career that put me way off the preferred timing, and I was still on the “golden path” for CO leaving my DH tour.

Regardless, I would still recommend discussing the career implications with your VT CO if they push you towards the SERGRAD route.

 

[KODAK]

One friend is a MiG killer and another is a Super Hornet test pilot - guess what they both have in common? Yep, both are SERGRADs..

Slight threadjack, but I’ve always found it hilarious that the tacair community poo-poos helo or big wing folks that try to instruct in jets later in their career, but will instead take literal students, run them through a short syllabus, and let them instruct in a jet. Sort of strange.

 

[Brett327]

One friend is a MiG killer and another is a Super Hornet test pilot - guess what they both have in common? Yep, both are SERGRADs..

Slight threadjack, but I’ve always found it hilarious that the tacair community poo-poos helo or big wing folks that try to instruct in jets later in their career, but will instead take literal students, run them through a short syllabus, and let them instruct in a jet. Sort of strange.

Curious, are the SERGRADs instructing the advanced jet syllabus, or Primary?

 

[Odominable]

Curious, are the SERGRADs instructing the advanced jet syllabus, or Primary?

Advanced jet but strictly phase 1/intermediate (the verbiage is changing, think fams/inst/forms). The Air Force has done an equivalent program in the T-6A forever, and I believe that’s now being explored in CNATRA.

 

[Brett327]

Advanced jet but strictly phase 1/intermediate (the verbiage is changing, think fams/inst/forms). The Air Force has done an equivalent program in the T-6A forever, and I believe that’s now being explored in CNATRA.

Maybe the pointy-nosed mafia would be OK in limiting the RW guys to that too. FWIW, at PMRF we fly the RC-26 (kind of a militarized Metroliner). We have a mix of VP, VAW, and RW pilots, and to be frank, the RW guys tend to struggle a bit at first in transitioning back to fixed wing flying. Completely expected and not a ding on the RW community, but I can certainly understand why TACAIR guys might look askance at RW or VP pilots teaching advanced jet syllabus events. There's a big learning curve they face that jet guys from the fleet will be doing second nature.

 

[Odominable]

Maybe the pointy-nosed mafia would be OK in limiting the RW guys to that too. FWIW, at PMRF we fly the RC-26 (kind of a militarized Metroliner). We have a mix of VP, VAW, and RW pilots, and to be frank, the RW guys tend to struggle a bit at first in transitioning back to fixed wing flying. Completely expected and not a ding on the RW community, but I can certainly understand why TACAIR guys might look askance at RW or VP pilots teaching advanced jet syllabus events. There's a big learning curve they face that jet guys from the fleet will be doing second nature.

I think that’s a reasonable option and I say that as a rotor-FW guy. There’s absolutely a challenge in flying the Goshawk, and it’s a much harder adjustment than say the T-6, for example, which while much faster than a helicopter is still similar in the sense of known (and generally stable) throttle positions / power settings and an ability to very easily and near instantaneously arrest forward/aft movement in formation.

But never mind what I think, MMOA seems to agree (see continued strike conversion selectees and a single dude doing T-6 to T-45 IP). What I will say talking to IP friends is helo, big wing, or SERGRAD, the long pole in the tent in VTJ manning is really more in the advanced instructor quals, not dudes teaching early stage events, which really must be sourced from guys with broader FW fleet experience. So while I’m sure these guys are appreciated to fill in a three turn fiddling around in the GCA box it’s not a panacea.

 

[Brett327]

I think that’s a reasonable option and I say that as a rotor-FW guy. There’s absolutely a challenge in flying the Goshawk, and it’s a much harder adjustment than say the T-6, for example, which while much faster than a helicopter is still similar in the sense of known (and generally stable) throttle positions / power settings and an ability to very easily and near instantaneously arrest forward/aft movement in formation.

But never mind what I think, MMOA seems to agree (see continued strike conversion selectees and a single dude doing T-6 to T-45 IP). What I will say talking to IP friends is helo, big wing, or SERGRAD, the long pole in the tent in VTJ manning is really more in the advanced instructor quals, not dudes teaching early stage events, which really must be sourced from guys with broader FW fleet experience. So while I’m sure these guys are appreciated to fill in a three turn fiddling around in the GCA box it’s not a panacea.

Agree, and every little bit counts toward digging ourselves out of the production holes.

 

[Gonzo08]

I know several VAQ guys that were SERGRADs and are current VAQ COs or XOs.

Can confirm. My incoming PXO was a sergrad. He's had some pretty accelerated tours but he caught up to his peers and he'll be my XO this fall.

 

[KODAK]

Maybe the pointy-nosed mafia would be OK in limiting the RW guys to that too. FWIW, at PMRF we fly the RC-26 (kind of a militarized Metroliner). We have a mix of VP, VAW, and RW pilots, and to be frank, the RW guys tend to struggle a bit at first in transitioning back to fixed wing flying. Completely expected and not a ding on the RW community, but I can certainly understand why TACAIR guys might look askance at RW or VP pilots teaching advanced jet syllabus events. There's a big learning curve they face that jet guys from the fleet will be doing second nature.

Wow that’s an interesting data point.. I was never a FITU instructor (well I technically sort of was but whatever), but I did hear the feedback that while it’s absolutely true some helo folks can struggle when returning to the FW mindset I feel like I heard much more about folks from the big wing side having to relearn how to hand fly vice trusting the autopilot anytime above 200’. Another thing to consider is that every community has standouts, both good and bad: I’ve known tacair folks that won’t ever fly a Navy aircraft again due to their skillset and judgement alongside big-wing friends that were absolutely incredible stick-and-throttle aviators who I’d trust to fly anything. So painting with a broom (which we all are guilty of at some point or another) isn’t necessarily helpful, but even so that's really an interesting data point I had not considered!

 

[taxi1]

When I was instructing at VT-26 in Beeville, we had a gaggle of sergrads there. Out of the 8 that overlapped with me, 4 of them went to TPS following their fleet tour. Pretty good numbers.

On the RW flying FW side, we had a bunch of USMC RW pilots instructing in T2s. They were all destined for AV8Bs. They were decent sticks. They tended to move the controls a lot more than needed when they first went through the FITU. Had to relearn that FW mostly fly themselves.