vxc961
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Ex-UK pilots lured to help Chinese military, MoD says
Up to 30 former UK military pilots are thought to have gone to train members of China's Army.
www.bbc.com
Kind of hard to believe…
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China hiring retired UK fighter pilots?
- Thread starter vxc961
- Start date
www.bbc.com
Kind of hard to believe…
Just saw this, and I'm surprised the article is alleging that His Majesty's Government is finding it hard to find laws to (metaphorically) hang these folks with. On the US side, you sign an NDA explicitly acknowledging that you're bound to keep classified info secret for the rest of your life unless and until it's formally declassified. I've got to think it's awfully hard to do anything other than the most basic flight school-level or early RAG-level training in TACAIR tactics without dipping into that well of classified info in one's brain. Certainly nothing useful in modern combat.
If a hypothetical US aviator were to take a job like that, I'd expect the FBI and many other lettered agencies to be up their ass with a microscope waiting for some evidence that they violated their NDA and passed classified TTPs to another country not authorized to receive them . . . especially if the Beeb is correct and this is done with specific intent to train PLA countertactics as opposed to just pushing Chinese SNA equivalents through Primary or something.
Either way, you can build a thousand bridges, but no one's going to call these guys bridgebuilders . . .
If a hypothetical US aviator were to take a job like that, I'd expect the FBI and many other lettered agencies to be up their ass with a microscope waiting for some evidence that they violated their NDA and passed classified TTPs to another country not authorized to receive them . . . especially if the Beeb is correct and this is done with specific intent to train PLA countertactics as opposed to just pushing Chinese SNA equivalents through Primary or something.
Either way, you can build a thousand bridges, but no one's going to call these guys bridgebuilders . . .
What color is the boat house at Hereford?
Somebody should ambush those traitor pilots with a f***ing cup of coffee.
GroundPounder
Well-Known Member
I seem to recall on this site that someone mentioned that the Chinese were attempting to hire ex USN folks to help them learn carrier day to day ops info around the time they were finishing their first carrier.
This must be a “thing.” The Washington Post has a similar story about U.S. stars working for the Saudi’s. Kind of like, “Step on up, pick your despot and make your money!”
I can't get to the article, but is the Post making a distinction between State-sanctioned contracting jobs or just being hired by the Kingdom directly?
Ex-UK pilots lured to help Chinese military, MoD says
Up to 30 former UK military pilots are thought to have gone to train members of China's Army.
Kind of hard to believe…
Unfortunately no, and you can assume it isn't limited to them either.
I'm not surprised at all they are having issues trying to stymie this legally right now, I doubt there is little to any proof that they are giving the Chinese classified information so what are they going to nail them on?
We have some pretty unique laws that make shenanigans like this much harder for American citizens to get away with than even some of our closest allies, to include laws covering acting as an unregistered agent of a foreign government and giving material assistance to a foreign government or entity in addition to our financial reporting, bribery, tax and sanction related laws as well. So while the UK has a pretty strong Official Secrets Act just working for a foreign government as a former service member, even a 'bad' one, is much more legally permissive for them.
All that said I am sure His Majesty's Government is working pretty hard to figure out how to stamp this out as best they can now, with our vigorous encouragement.
vxc961
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Yeah, maybe I’m naive, but I still just don’t understand how this happens. I don’t think it’s fear of punishment that stops us here from retiring and then getting a contracting gig in North Korea or Syria, right? I just can’t wrap my head around saying “God save the Queen!” For twenty years and then going to China to teach NATO tactics. I tend to trust the BBC, but I wonder (hope?) there’s more to this story.
Broadly the report is about the breakdown of the foreign emoluments clause noting that the 1977 ruling that passes approval to DoD is basically a hollow rubber stamp process. The article notes that some are on State sanctioned contracts (they work for corporations like Boeing or BAH) but most are direct “consultants” to the Kingdom and other nations. It is a six part series and is actually quite good.
Greed is a pretty powerful motivator and plenty have compromised their principles because of it.
A couple of other factors that may be at play include the fact that many in the UK likely don't see China as a direct threat, extending to some current and former military types, so doing work for China is not the same as doing work for someone like Russia. Additionally former British military personnel have a very long history of working for other governments in an advisory capacity in a much more integrated fashion than most Americans would likely be comfortable with, though usually with government approval, going so far as to serve a foreign country in uniform in a few cases even today. That extends somewhat to some of the Commonwealth countries, probably the best known example is the current commander of the UAE's Presidential Guard is an retired Aussie Major General. So while working for China is not the norm they do have a much more historically permissive attitude working for foreign governments in general.
Finally there is a little bit of an undercurrent of resentment towards us, even anti-Americanism in a handful of cases, among some Brits I've noticed to include even service members. Most often it is an exasperation at American clumsiness, ignorance and arrogance when dealing with foreign partners combined with a bit of envy at our overabundance of military resources but a handful of times it has had a little bit more of a 'bite' than just normal complaining. Is it common or pervasive? No, but it has been there enough for me to notice a handful of times after working closely with a variety of Brits over two decades now.
Long story short though, a combination of greed and 'not my problem' are the most likely factors in these folks deciding to work for China.
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Fairly big difference considering we have military exchange programs with the Saudi Air Force... i.e. the US Govt approves of giving them assistance.
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