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Europe under extreme duress

Gatordev

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I listened to (most of) this last night on my drive to work. Pretty insightful and touched on what Putin's end game may have been. Like Flash, I was asking that before the invasion. It's worth a listen.

www.npr.org

Putin's war is a nightmare for the Ukrainian people and for Russia, an expert warns

Putin acted out of hubris and "didn't get the politics of Ukraine right" when he decided to invade, says Michael Kimmage, an academic who formerly served at the State Department.
www.npr.org www.npr.org
 
Flash

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Griz882 said:
The U.S. could potentially set up a system like CAMCO and the AVG as they did in China back in 1941 (imagine a modern “Pappy” Boyington in Ukraine!). This would bring the expertise, skills, and equipment to Ukraine but give the artificial feel of “non-participation” by the U.S. That is really the only way something like that could work and it is doubtful America has balls that size anymore for a number of reasons…to include nuclear weapons.
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It isn't necessarily a question of cojones but one of practicality, for lots of reasons from nationality questions to merely being able to maintain the aircraft. While a relatively 'simple' modern combat aircraft it would be an understatement to say that it is many times more complex than a P-40B with the attendant logistics tail needed to actually keep the planes flying.

And while well publicized after Pearl Harbor the recruitment and fielding of the the American Volunteer Group was kept a pretty good secret until then, to say that a new version of the AVG would be a leading story across the world would be an understatement.

While a nice idea it is a non-starter.
 
Randy Daytona

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
sevenhelmet said:
At this point? Bring it, Putin.

I'm being facetious, but only somewhat. Russia's conventional and economic power have been seriously limited by Putin's war of aggression and the West's refreshingly united response.
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It has been a united response by the West over Russia - I have doubts that Europe (for that matter, US corporations) will be united when there is a similar crisis in the Pacific over Taiwan.

One possible outcome is a bifurcation of the world as China, Russia, and others want to insulate themselves from the dollar as a reserve currency and the ability of western sanctions to disrupt their economies.

On a separate note, I saw that Richard Engel (NBC News chief foreign affairs correspondent) as well as numerous other reporters and politicians- across the political spectrum- have brought up a no fly zone in Ukraine, some have mentioned a direct airstrike on Russian armored convoys. As someone who lived through the first Cold War, it would probably end up like this:

 
Griz882

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Flash said:
It isn't necessarily a question of cojones but one of practicality, for lots of reasons from nationality questions to merely being able to maintain the aircraft. While a relatively 'simple' modern combat aircraft it would be an understatement to say that it is many times more complex than a P-40B with the attendant logistics tail needed to actually keep the planes flying.

And while well publicized after Pearl Harbor the recruitment and fielding of the the American Volunteer Group was kept a pretty good secret until then, to say that a new version of the AVG would be a leading story across the world would be an understatement.

While a nice idea it is a non-starter.
Click to expand...
While I agree with you keep in mind that CAMCO was the maintenance part of the AVG idea. The pilots were only a fraction of the effort. I also agree it is a non-starter but for different reasons.
 
Griz882

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
jmcquate said:
I'm just a simple boy from Ohio, but it's my understanding that to enforce a "no fly zone", first you need air supremacy. Anything less is air combat. I guess they missed that lecture in Journalism School.
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Ohio? They put the Wright Flier backwards on their license plates…don’t lecture us about air power!
 
Max the Mad Russian

Max the Mad Russian

Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Is that possible to ruin Montreux Convention and made Black Sea NATO A2/AD less Russian TW/EEZ? I.e. deploy SSNs there and then, carefully evaluating situation, CSG?
 
Griz882

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Randy Daytona said:
It has been a united response by the West over Russia - I have doubts that Europe (for that matter, US corporations) will be united when there is a similar crisis in the Pacific over Taiwan.

One possible outcome is a bifurcation of the world as China, Russia, and others want to insulate themselves from the dollar as a reserve currency and the ability of western sanctions to disrupt their economies.

On a separate note, I saw that Richard Engel (NBC News chief foreign affairs correspondent) as well as numerous other reporters and politicians- across the political spectrum- have brought up a no fly zone in Ukraine, some have mentioned a direct airstrike on Russian armored convoys. As someone who lived through the first Cold War, it would probably end up like this:

Click to expand...
So, do I dig out Coyle’s “Team Yankee” or Hackett’s “Third World War” for tonight’s read?
 
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