Working and going school > going to school with a parental umbillical

[HAL Pilot]

You guys saying "cut the umbilical" are out of line.

Parents paying their child's college room and board is not an "umbilical". It's parents doing as they see best for their child. That's what parents do and it is their decision based on their circumstances and what they can afford.

Here's a news flash for you - my parents paid 100% of both my brother's and my tuition, books, room, board, living expenses, cars and car insurance while we were in college. They wanted us to concentrate on getting the best education possible without worrying about money. We both worked part-time jobs for our drinking money but very they were minimal part-time jobs.

Their parents did the same for them and both my brother and I will be doing the same for our children. In fact, unless our kids decide on Harvard, we both have the money already put aside to cover this.

No umbilical - just parents being parents and good parent-children relationships.

I think what Daisy is doing for her kids is awesome. As Zab said, leave the commentary out and stick to answering her questions.

Daisy,

As of 1/1/2009, as a newly commissioned Ensign, your son would make:
$2655/month base pay
$223/month subsistence allowance
$1081/month basic allowance for housing (if not in the BOQ)

Here's a link to a website that explains military pay fairly well. It has further links to the actual pay numbers. http://www.military-money-matters.com/military-pay.html

 

[Birdog8585]

I agree with Hal. Most likely your son will find some roommates during Flight Training which will cut down on monthly expenses substantially. He will have plenty of money left over each month to begin to take on other financial responsibilities (including entertainment ).

As far as 'the typical debt for NROTC grads' portion, it depends. If he pics up a scholarship (I'm assuming he hasn't), then all of his tuition, fees, and books will be covered. He will also get a few extra hundred bucks a month (stipend) in his pocket. That debt is not owed back financially, instead it is traded for service obligation.

I am an NROTC grad and picked up a scholarship my sophomore year. So my college financial debt upon graduation was for the loans that I had to take out previous to receiving the scholarship. I did also obtain the USAA pre-commissioning loan so I had that debt as well. That is a wise decision, however, as I paid off some school debt, credit cards, and other things for an insanely low interest. I recommend the same for your son.

A car, in my opinion, is a must. You are now an officer, a professional and you should have a car. Period.

It sounds like you and your husband are great parents and because of that he will be fine.

 

[TrueAce]

You guys saying "cut the umbilical" are out of line.

Parents paying their child's college room and board is not an "umbilical". It's parents doing as they see best for their child. That's what parents do and it is their decision based on their circumstances and what they can afford.

Here's a news flash for you - my parents paid 100% of both my brother's and my tuition, books, room, board, living expenses, cars and car insurance while we were in college. They wanted us to concentrate on getting the best education possible without worrying about money. We both worked part-time jobs for our drinking money but very they were minimal part-time jobs.

Their parents did the same for them and both my brother and I will be doing the same for our children. In fact, unless our kids decide on Harvard, we both have the money already put aside to cover this.

No umbilical - just parents being parents and good parent-children relationships.

I think what Daisy is doing for her kids is awesome. As Zab said, leave the commentary out and stick to answering her questions.

Daisy,

As of 1/1/2009, as a newly commissioned Ensign, your son would make:
$2655/month base pay
$223/month subsistence allowance
$1081/month basic allowance for housing (if not in the BOQ)

Here's a link to a website that explains military pay fairly well. It has further links to the actual pay numbers. http://www.military-money-matters.com/military-pay.html

The only problem I find with your theory is people that work have to work while attending school are more disciplined and trained to handle a higher workload which is a valuable asset in itself. The people who have their parents pay for everything, which there is nothing wrong with, don't really focus on their education anymore than someone who works IMO (99%), they just have more time to party. So someone who takes 15 hours per semester and doesn't work isn't being taxed nearly as much, nor really educating themselves anymore in most cases than someone who works 20-30 per week and is taking 12 credit hours.

You can procrastinate an incredible amount if you don't work and still do well, where the same can't be said for someone who is at the mercy of an employer. I see your point in that you're able to "focus on your education", but come on what does that really mean? Like I already said more time to party for 99% of people. I'm sorry you don't have to call it an umbilical cord, but when your parents are still paying all of your expenses at 22 years old, maybe "a crutch", or "booster seat" would suffice?

 

[HAL Pilot]

The only problem I find with your theory is people that work have to work while attending school are more disciplined and trained to handle a higher workload which is a valuable asset in itself. The people who have their parents pay for everything, which there is nothing wrong with, don't really focus on their education anymore than someone who works IMO (99%), they just have more time to party. So someone who takes 15 hours per semester and doesn't work isn't being taxed nearly as much, nor really educating themselves anymore in most cases than someone who works 20-30 per week and is taking 12 credit hours.

You can procrastinate an incredible amount if you don't work and still do well, where the same can't be said for someone who is at the mercy of an employer. I see your point in that you're able to "focus on your education", but come on what does that really mean? Like I already said more time to party for 99% of people. I'm sorry you don't have to call it an umbilical cord, but when your parents are still paying all of your expenses at 22 years old, maybe "a crutch", or "booster seat" would suffice?

Your opinion on what a student does or does not receive in the areas of education, discipline and experience. But my experience was those that were not constantly working or paying their own way generally complete college quicker and with better grades. I'll admit my experience was 25+ years ago and things change, but my friends putting their kids through college now generally have the same impression.

Calling it a "crutch" or "booster seat" is what those whose parents didn't pay or help pay for their college usually say. I'm sorry your parents either would not or could not do it for you, but that doesn't mean you have more character or are a better person. That's just the breaks. It sucks for you.

22 year old getting help from his parents for college - perfectly accepted and even expected. Why do you think the military, federal government and most good corporate jobs extend dependent benefits to child under 23 if they are enrolled full-time in school?

Again - I call it a parent doing everything possible within their means for their child. That is what being a parent is all about. Get a little older, gain some more life experiences and have a kid. Then maybe you will understand.

 

[MrsPickle]

You guys saying "cut the umbilical" are out of line.

Parents paying their child's college room and board is not an "umbilical". It's parents doing as they see best for their child. That's what parents do and it is their decision based on their circumstances and what they can afford.

Here's a news flash for you - my parents paid 100% of both my brother's and my tuition, books, room, board, living expenses, cars and car insurance while we were in college. They wanted us to concentrate on getting the best education possible without worrying about money. We both worked part-time jobs for our drinking money but very they were minimal part-time jobs.
**other stuff from HAL**

I'd have to agree on this one. Pickle and I have over $120K in student loans between us. That puts an incredible amount of strain on our relationship. We are slated to pay these loans until 2042 and 2044, respectively.

At this point, we're trying to put a little away for the little Pickles. We are by no means destitute (we put quite a bit away in TSP every month, and that rocks), we just aren't living "the JO life..."

I wish that my parents had helped with my college, but if we're wishing, I also wish that I hadn't taken out the max loan each semester. I think there is a balance between "umbilical cord" and fiscal responsibility.

On the car subject, Pickle has his POS truck, that he bought with his Enlistment Bonus (when he received his Aircrew wings), but I have the "Ensign Mobile." I have a 2006 Ford Freestyle (station wagon). Most of you do not need Ensign Mobiles, and if I had a dollar for every BMW I saw... Anyway, if you are going to get a loan, or use the majority of your USAA loan to get a car, think about the future. Most of you aren't too many years away from a wife, family, etc. Scary, I know... but, true.

I'm not saying, go out and buy a minivan, but it's pretty hard to put a baby carrier in a BMW Roadster.

Oh, and we make out okay with our partial-DITY moves. Pickle crams the truck full of stuff, and I put all the "kid essentials" in the car (pack n play, toys, extra diapers, etc). We have moved NINE times in 5 years, so don't think that you only move every 3 years or so. We haven't fulfilled a lease since we've been married.

 

[Jynx]

Your opinion on what a student does or does not receive in the areas of education, discipline and experience. But my experience was those that were not constantly working or paying their own way generally complete college quicker and with better grades. I'll admit my experience was 25+ years ago and things change, but my friends putting their kids through college now generally have the same impression.

Calling it a "crutch" or "booster seat" is what those whose parents didn't pay or help pay for their college usually say. I'm sorry your parents either would not or could not do it for you, but that doesn't mean you have more character or are a better person. That's just the breaks. It sucks for you.

22 year old getting help from his parents for college - perfectly accepted and even expected. Why do you think the military, federal government and most good corporate jobs extend dependent benefits to child under 23 if they are enrolled full-time in school?

Again - I call it a parent doing everything possible within their means for their child. That is what being a parent is all about. Get a little older, gain some more life experiences and have a kid. Then maybe you will understand.

Speaking as a guy finishing his last semester, I've gotta agree more generally with HAL. While your mileage may vary, I'm fortunate enough that I only have to part time VERY infrequently to make up the difference between tuition and what my parents can put towards it. I'd consider it a slap in the face to them if I spent more then an hour a day not doing something directly related to health or (future) wealth. Mind you, I've not got a car and I'm very aware of when my supermarket puts its meat on sale, but the fact is that I'm free now to concentrate on things like my thesis and the all important application to OCS...

 

[Uncle Fester]

I don't think it's a one-or-the-other thing. My folks made it clear to me that I was expected to get on the oars and row when it came to paying for college, but if I did my best to pick up as much financial aid and scholarships as possible, they'd make up the difference.

As it was, I went to the Chesapeake Clown College, so their end was paying the $2K-ish "initial issue" fees. Spending money whilest there was on me.

Teaching fiscal responsibility doesn't mean cutting the kiddos off - it's encouraging them to do their part and work for what they want.

 

[TrueAce]

Your opinion on what a student does or does not receive in the areas of education, discipline and experience. But my experience was those that were not constantly working or paying their own way generally complete college quicker and with better grades. I'll admit my experience was 25+ years ago and things change, but my friends putting their kids through college now generally have the same impression.

Calling it a "crutch" or "booster seat" is what those whose parents didn't pay or help pay for their college usually say. I'm sorry your parents either would not or could not do it for you, but that doesn't mean you have more character or are a better person. That's just the breaks. It sucks for you.

22 year old getting help from his parents for college - perfectly accepted and even expected. Why do you think the military, federal government and most good corporate jobs extend dependent benefits to child under 23 if they are enrolled full-time in school?

Again - I call it a parent doing everything possible within their means for their child. That is what being a parent is all about. Get a little older, gain some more life experiences and have a kid. Then maybe you will understand.

Ya I agree it's acceptable without a question, but if you really think people who don't work in most cases receive a better education I find that hard to believe. I have friends on both sides of the coin and the ones that don't work, just have more time for social activities. (ie. drinking, sports, laying around, chasing women, whatever they like to do.) If you feel this is "focusing on your education" then I'm sorry. By you paying for your kids college and all other expenses basically, which again there is nothing wrong with, you're basically giving them more time to do what they please.

The difference in the amount of hours people put into their studies who work and don't work, probably isn't all that great. Of course there are exceptions for some people that are extremely serious students and would rather study than party, but this is the exception rather than the rule.

You're right though people who don't have to work will generally complete college faster and have higher grades for the most part. I would say more because of easier scheduling, large amounts of procrastination possible and can still pull a 3.5, which in turn leads to less stress because you can constantly put things off, not because they really end up learning more in the end.

 

[Spekkio]

Ya I agree it's acceptable without a question, but if you really think people who don't work in most cases receive a better education I find that hard to believe. I have friends on both sides of the coin and the ones that don't work, just have more time for social activities. (ie. drinking, sports, laying around, chasing women, whatever they like to do.) If you feel this is "focusing on your education" then I'm sorry. By you paying for your kids college and all other expenses basically, which again there is nothing wrong with, you're basically giving them more time to do what they please.

I also agree with HAL. When I went through college, the people who had to work heavy hours-full-time to make ends meet were the ones who were under-performing in grades. They also couldn't readily do extra unpaid lab-work/internships/whatever to get that key recommendation. You might be a shit-hot BK worker, but your manager there isn't going to get you into grad school. Post college, these people are more likely to run into stressful financial hardships, since they went into heavy debt to afford college in the first place. You might see the value in voluntarily putting your kids into this situation, but I don't.

I had tuition paid for on scholarship, but when it came to room and board my parents paid whatever federal loans wouldn't cover. Their premise was simple: If your grades slip, the money goes away. I still worked hard in college, got good grades, and had a part-time job to pay for my own non-essentials.

Ya I agree it's acceptable without a question, but if you really think people who don't work in most cases receive a better education I find that hard to believe. I have friends on both sides of the coin and the ones that don't work, just have more time for social activities. (ie. drinking, sports, laying around, chasing women, whatever they like to do.) If you feel this is "focusing on your education" then I'm sorry. By you paying for your kids college and all other expenses basically, which again there is nothing wrong with, you're basically giving them more time to do what they please.

If they don't work, where are they getting the money to go out boozin and chase women? Paying tuition and giving your kid large amounts of money to blow on partying are two very different things. I agree that parents should not do the latter, but I know that when I went through college, I made enough working full-time during summer break to support luxuries throughout the school year, so long as I budgeted right.

I'm not saying, go out and buy a minivan, but it's pretty hard to put a baby carrier in a BMW Roadster.

That's why you get a good deal on a lease with a low down-payment, then when you're making O-3 pay and wanna have kids, you can buy something more "responsible." No USAA loan required.

I would base the decision of SUV vs. sedan/coupe on other factors rather than just partial DITY moves every few years. You can stuff quite a bit of stuff into a sedan. You also get 5 days worth of Temporary Lodging Expenses within 50 mi of your old/new command...so sleep in a hotel, use their free wi-fi/cable tv until your stuff arrives.

If you own a home and plan on doing a lot of work on it yourself, then a truck would have more use. If you're single and going to be living in apartments for a while, then save on gas and go for a car.

 

[RyanF]

Ya I agree it's acceptable without a question, but if you really think people who don't work in most cases receive a better education I find that hard to believe. I have friends on both sides of the coin and the ones that don't work, just have more time for social activities. (ie. drinking, sports, laying around, chasing women, whatever they like to do.) If you feel this is "focusing on your education" then I'm sorry. By you paying for your kids college and all other expenses basically, which again there is nothing wrong with, you're basically giving them more time to do what they please.

The difference in the amount of hours people put into their studies who work and don't work, probably isn't all that great. Of course there are exceptions for some people that are extremely serious students and would rather study than party, but this is the exception rather than the rule.

You've obviously never been to the engineering side of campus have you?

 

[spinspilot]

My parents pay for my rent, but I have taken out Govt loans for tuition and spending money. My parents do give me money here and there though. Some semesters I have worked part time, others I have not. I dont think working part time detracts from the studies or partying depending on course load. I will say that I count my lucky stars at night, because I know if they didnt help, this journey would SUCK. As I am getting near the end of school, Ive started feeling guilty when it comes time to tell them rent is due. I really just want to finish now.
For guys still in school with a ways to go, dont be a sucker like your friends and work at BK, go get a part time telemarketing job with comission. I was making $500 every 2 weeks for 20 hrs of work. instead of a bottle of ABC vodka, it was Grey Goose.

 

[UpstateSouthpaw]

You've obviously never been to the engineering side of campus have you?

I hear that!!!

 

[Daisy]

You've obviously never been to the engineering side of campus have you?

Tough majors like engineering...I've also met a handful of (N)ROTC students who have a major plus a minor in one of those strategically desirable but sadistically difficult languages...add NROTC and then add a part time job. Are many NROTC students actually doing all this?

NROTC takes up roughly the same amount of time as a part time job and the student is paid monthly. To me, it is the equivalent of a part time job.

Anyone who has an NROTC scholarship still has the room and board gap to pay. That cost has to go somewhere - either the student takes loans or the parents provide the funds. If the parents don't help then many Ensigns arrive at their first post-college training with debt - hopefully not too much.

As HAL said:

I call it a parent doing everything possible within their means for their child.

Good parents look out for their kids and hopefully those good kids will look out for Mom and Dad when the time comes.

It stressed me just to read this but p3wife has a good point - the debt is combined in marriage:

I'd have to agree on this one. Pickle and I have over $120K in student loans between us. That puts an incredible amount of strain on our relationship. We are slated to pay these loans until 2042 and 2044, respectively.

By the rest of her post it's obvious that she and Pickle are great parents and are making wise choices on how to manage the debt and still provide well for their children. Good luck! The little pickles are very fortunate.

FWIW - my son will have debt, too. I suspect that he might use that USAA "Career Starter Loan" to fund PRK if it turns out he needs it.

I still have a car question - out of curiosity:

The Ensignmobile...is that an amazingly fly car that costs more than is prudent or is it the opposite - an ugly but reliable vehicle?

 

[HAL Pilot]

Good parents look out for their kids and hopefully those good kids will look out for Mom and Dad when the time comes.

The deal with my parents was that I'd do the same for my kid. Which I will. They also know that I will take care of them if needed just like I know they will take care of me if ever needed. It's called family.

It stressed me just to read this but p3wife has a good point - the debt is combined in marriage:

Yeah...where I escaped any college debt of my own I sure got to pay the ex-wifes. Luckily I was a LT on max flight pay by then.

Diasy - you're doing the right thing by your kids. They're lucky to have the parents they do.

 

[TrueAce]

You've obviously never been to the engineering side of campus have you?

No, but my brother is a civil engineering major, works 20-30 per week and I believe has over a 3.0 at the moment. What's your point? If someone has an aptitude for the coursework, then do you really think it's not possible to work and do well whether it's electrical, chemical or physics? You "obviously" think that every person who's an engineering major has to spend every waking moment studying in order to do well.

If you're struggling that bad, do yourself a favor and change majors.

Anyways, I basically agree with most of the viewpoints in this thread so it's no big deal. I agree what the parents are doing for their kid is a good thing. The only point I'm trying to get across, is usually the kids that don't work end up receiving more than strictly tuition, board, and books which IMO qualifies as an umbilical cord.

The majority of my friends who don't work, in addition to receiving all this, get a hundred or couple hundred to per week to whatever they please with. Now if this latter definition of what qualifies for an "umbilical cord, or booster seat" doesn't add up to you, I'm sorry you're completely out of touch with reality. Let's just be realistic what it is when taking things into account on a world standard.

So I'll comprise and say if you're just having tuition, room, and books paid for by your parents then it's just "a little crutch."

Now if you're having everything paid for and a hundred dollar a week stipend from your parents It's a f***** umbilical cord come on now. (again there's nothing wrong with it, but that's what it is, and anyone who can say with a straight face they aren't still attached to their mom by an umbilical cord is a d*** liar) Case closed.