Why don't the Marines fly H-60's?

[HueyCobra8151]

This may come as a shock to some USN H-60 guys who bemoan the 60's comm suite, but the MEU would often ask to use a USN H-60 as their C&C bird because of a better comm suite. Also, the ISR capability of the H-60S with the MTS has more utility than the H-1's sensor. The MEU loved the fact that the H-60 could use ROVER to send live video back to the LFOC. Finally, the grunts think that the H-60 is a far better platform to insert from. Apparently the ergonomics of roping from an H-1Y are something of a nightmare while the H-60 is very user friendly.

Huey has 3 radios and (satcom supposedly). H-1 has a more capable sensor with ROVER coming in the near future. Have heard nothing but good things about the HIE capabilities of the Huey. Also, the UH-1Y has a WAY better cockpit than the -60 IMHO.

I think the Marine Corps should have gone with the -60 just because it seems like Sikorsky actually gives a shit about putting out a good product. I'm sure they would have accommodated whatever HQMC asked for.

 

[jtmedli]

I love auto fold, but I wonder if we couldn't have thrown a few bucks at it and replaced the somewhat unreliable and vintage 70s relay style fold system. I'm sure the guys thinking CH-60S weren't worried about it, but any mission config these days is max gross weight and maybe sacrificing some fuel to get there. That's a small problem the Battlehawk doesn't have to worry about.

I think the forward firing ordnance gives a great capability to a service (USN) that wasn't willing to buy dedicated gunships. They serve their purpose and have a ton of possibilities in the right hands.

I'd be very interested to see how much a -60 weighs without any blade fold installed. Kind of an all else equal situation just to see exactly how much all of the harnesses, motors, and hinges add to the weight of the bird.

FFWS are great. Kinda wish the Navy had gotten us the 30mm instead of the 20mm but beggars can't be choosers. The FFWS setup is surprisingly capable and can be VERY accurate when the guy flying/shooting has experience with it. There-in-lies a problem though. Big Navy needs to push the funding for us to get pilots qualified and to shoot enough to maintain some level of proficiency with the profile and weapons system. Otherwise it's just all for show and will become another running joke about the "gun we don't ever shoot or don't know how to shoot".

 

[RobLyman]

HH-60M = 15k ish with two pilots and no fuel. Subtract 1500 lbs if you take out the stuff that makes it an HH vs UH. Add fuel, IBF, medic, crew chief, med gear, BAPS, etc.. and you are flying at about 19k in theater. Not a lot of margin when you throw in environmentals, even with wide chord blades and D engines.

 

[jtmedli]

HH-60M = 15k ish with two pilots and no fuel. Subtract 1500 lbs if you take out the stuff that makes it an HH vs UH. Add fuel, IBF, medic, crew chief, med gear, BAPS, etc.. and you are flying at about 19k in theater. Not a lot of margin when you throw in environmentals, even with wide chord blades and D engines.

We keep the aux tanks in all the birds and most squadrons have the EWS (DAP style) wings at least half their birds. With 2 pilots and 2 crewman in there and 3700lbs of fuel we're almost always around 21.5k. Sometimes we are at max gross weight w/ass and trash in the back and we have the C engines. Throw in some nice and hot desert weather and we were usually barely HIGE capable on the takeoff and definitely not HOGE capable.