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Why does the Marine Corps have its own "Air Force"?
- Thread starter SoICanBeFree
- Start date
Junkball, it says "On Exchange" right next to my friggin' picture. Even a guy from Kalamazoo could see that, you MOTO.
:icon_wink
Oh, and Go Blue!
Widow43-NICK
New Member
Ha ha in the RED?! WATCH UR WAR STORIES HERO! XXXXXX Love WW43.
JCAS, FAC/JTACs, FAC (A)s (how Joint is interservice cooperation really?)
They really aren't involved in the same kind of aerial campaign that the Air Force, Navy and many Marines are involved with day to day. They seem to treat their aviation assets almost solely as an extension of their ground forces, not as a separate entity that operates on it's own. It's not bad, just the way it is. My Army buddy put it best when he said "The Army treats it's helos like jeeps that can fly". With a few notable exceptions, they don't play with the rest of us because they just don't need to.
They really aren't involved in the same kind of aerial campaign that the Air Force, Navy and many Marines are involved with day to day. They seem to treat their aviation assets almost solely as an extension of their ground forces, not as a separate entity that operates on it's own. It's not bad, just the way it is. My Army buddy put it best when he said "The Army treats it's helos like jeeps that can fly". With a few notable exceptions, they don't play with the rest of us because they just don't need to.
When I've worked with the Army, it's been an interesting experience. I agree that they in general do their own thing and don't play much with others.
They do, however, know their business very well.
When I got my Sandy qual, the helo escorts in the CSARTF were Air Cav, and they did a magnificent job once we figured out how to integrate their tactics into the plan.
They do, however, know their business very well.
When I got my Sandy qual, the helo escorts in the CSARTF were Air Cav, and they did a magnificent job once we figured out how to integrate their tactics into the plan.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
When I was in Kuwait during my FAC tour, a couple of Apache pilots from the 1st AirCav wandered over and asked us if we were interested in doing some CAS/SIMCAS with them. Our initial response? Nope. After we starting shooting the shit a bit more, it came out that the guy that was approaching me was their head training dude - and had been pushing for the Army to learn/teach the joint doctrine in addition to their own. He and a couple of his pilots had even convinced their Battalion Commander to send them through the MAWTS-1 FAC(A) syllabus which they did in Yuma.
After all this came to light we agreed to it - and let me tell you, they were solid dudes. My only regret is that we didn't get a chance to throw a cold one back during the debrief. This guy (a CWO4) was trying to change Army doctrine grass roots style. A PAO guy was with him every time he came over to brief/debrief/plan and also came out with him and us to the hill. If you're interested - here's the article about it.
After all this came to light we agreed to it - and let me tell you, they were solid dudes. My only regret is that we didn't get a chance to throw a cold one back during the debrief. This guy (a CWO4) was trying to change Army doctrine grass roots style. A PAO guy was with him every time he came over to brief/debrief/plan and also came out with him and us to the hill. If you're interested - here's the article about it.
Going along with this, there is a current and working plan to eventually put all Army Aviators (at least on the active side) through the JSOW course. The plan as it was explained to me was to start throwing it into the initial Flight School pipeline for the WOJG/JOs and add it into something like the advanced/captains career course for the guys already out there.
Perhaps Army has a different meaning for JSOW? To Navy, Marines and Air Force, it is the Joint StandOff Weapon (JSOW).
It's acronyms....could be JTAC, but FAC (A) would make more sense.
No they specifically said it wouldnt be a JTAC or FAC(A) course because of the problem with maintaining currency (hard to find a fixed wing or AC-130 at an Army post).
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Interesting, because the whole point behind this guy's push was to abide by the JCAS pub. Would this course certify them as FAC(A)'s, then have an "out" because of maintaining currency? And finding fixed wing is easy. Just call up the Air Force (good example - if at Bragg, call Pope or Seymour Johnson, the A-10 and F-15E guys LOVE to play)...
True that, it's a symbiotic relationship as all players bascially need each other for currency. Toughest part is for school houses to get enough controls of various types in set period of time to graduate...really tough when all the Hornets are down at Fallon.
Gonna have to find a copy of my pubs from the course. Like I said its nothing absolutely official at the moment but it was brought up while we were in the Fires course here at Rucker and then I heard it again from a very senior Warrant at a AAAA meeting.
Well, there you go. Army's approach to joint ops: "Eh...too hard."