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Why are you Leaving?

BarrettRC8

VMFA
pilot
No, someone else. I've had others tell me that they've heard some head scratchers as well.

I have no problem working hard. I'm working 12 OR MORE hours every day excluding a lunch break, even on non-flying days. This is also time spent working, not dicking around like some other people seemed to think JOs do in another thread. I also don't remember the last weekend or holiday I didn't work where I wasn't on leave and physically unable to go into work. The problem for me is that none of this time is spent studying or getting better at briefing, debriefing, or execution. It's doing ground jobs that wouldn't even qualify as background experience for a job handing out basketballs at a YMCA.

That is unfortunately what life in the fleet has become for the Marine Hornet community. And why they have resorted to measures such as "Continuation" vice actually taking a look at the actual issues of why Captains don't want to stay in this organization.
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
That is unfortunately what life in the fleet has become for the Marine Hornet community. And why they have resorted to measures such as "Continuation" vice actually taking a look at the actual issues of why Captains don't want to stay in this organization.
Are there any/many USMC GO aviators who a) understand the root problem, and b) have the clout with their peers and superiors to actually do something about it (read: affect resourcing decisions)?
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
With the USMC "continuation" plan, if you accept, are you still eligible to select O-4 at a later date, or are you out of the running completely as a 2xFOS?
I'll leave the legalities up to an expert, but I thought there was some part of title 10 that says twice passed officers "shall" be separated. Even if that's not specifically the case, above zone promotions are exceedingly rare and usually involve special circumstances like a GO recommendation. Further, the continuation message was crafted to specifically only select captains with less than 15 years service so that a three year continuation wouldn't allow them to reach sanctuary at 18 years. That seems to broadcast their intentions pretty clearly. Basically, anyone that accepts continuation hoping to make major is fucking high.

On top of that, selecting continuation (or in this case failing to decline it in writing with documented counseling by an O-5 or higher by the deadline less than a month away) may also screw people out of reserve jobs. For example, the most recent operational support airlift reserve selection board listed captains with 15 years service as ineligible, and tacking on the three continuation years may put some above that.

In the end, this is the best option at this point for twice passed captains. Some may decide to continue for family/monetary/flight time reasons, but they need to do so with their eyes open. For the majority that will see this as a bullshit proposition, they can tell them to screw off and take their seps pay and leave.

The part that pisses me off is that they claim they are short on pilots while failing to promote pilots, and that they systematically spread lies to the affected captains through monitors and MAG PSD's by telling them declining continuation would also decline seps pay. It didn't cause me to get out and go to the airlines, but it's certainly reinforcing that decision.
 

BarrettRC8

VMFA
pilot
There is some argument about whether twice passed over, separated Captains will receive separation pay. At least on the ready room level. Some say it is illegal per Title 10, others say that is precisely why the Marine Corps created this Continuation MARADMIN.

The whole thing is shady. Taking away opportunities for guys who have served 10+ years and deployed more times in a single fleet tour than some of our GOs have altogether, is wrong. What happened to taking care of our people? Oh, that's right - The Marine Corps does a good job of taking care of its Marines, but a terrible job of taking care of its officers. That's fine, people are, and will continue to vote with their feet in even bigger numbers if the culture doesn't change.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
There is some argument about whether twice passed over, separated Captains will receive separation pay. At least on the ready room level. Some say it is illegal per Title 10, others say that is precisely why the Marine Corps created this Continuation MARADMIN.

The whole thing is shady. Taking away opportunities for guys who have served 10+ years and deployed more times in a single fleet tour than some of our GOs have altogether, is wrong. What happened to taking care of our people? Oh, that's right - The Marine Corps does a good job of taking care of its Marines, but a terrible job of taking care of its officers. That's fine, people are, and will continue to vote with their feet in even bigger numbers if the culture doesn't change.
There is no grey area, only the false information disseminated by HQMC. Call separations, and they will tell you. I posted the email I received last year on this subject with the direct quote from title 10 saying continuation has to be to retirement or it's still involuntary separation. It's in the 2xFOS thread, and I emailed it to pretty much everyone I know.

By the way, they asked me to keep it to myself. Fuck them.
 

DocT

Dean of Students
pilot
Yes, on the last 3 pages of a 43 page thread.
Yeah I get that. I should have quoted Randy in my reply. I was responding to his SelRes promotion comment for continued Marine Captains.

As to separation pay: per MMOA declining continuation would not disqualify you from separations pay. I'd want to see that in writing however.
 

BarrettRC8

VMFA
pilot
There is no grey area, only the false information disseminated by HQMC. Call separations, and they will tell you. I posted the email I received last year on this subject with the direct quote from title 10 saying continuation has to be to retirement or it's still involuntary separation. It's in the 2xFOS thread, and I emailed it to pretty much everyone I know.

By the way, they asked me to keep it to myself. Fuck them.

Thanks bro. I'll pass this on.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Yeah I get that. I should have quoted Randy in my reply. I was responding to his SelRes promotion comment for continued Marine Captains.

As to separation pay: per MMOA declining continuation would not disqualify you from separations pay. I'd want to see that in writing however.

It's written in title 10USC. Start at section 632 and read the associated sections.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
The person I spoke with over the phone at separations. I was initially given the party line that declining continuation means no involuntary separation pay. I asked to get the appropriate passage from title 10 or directive in writing. They said there was a meeting that morning and to call back. When I called back I was told they had just talked about it and it would still be involuntary separation, but not to spread that around. Maybe because they weren't sure, maybe because that's what they were told to say.

In general they seemed pretty sympathetic once they understood what was happening. I don't think they even knew what had been published. This was a day (or a few days) after the promotion/continuation message came out last summer. They did email me the passage in title 10, which I sent to everyone I know and posted in the other thread.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
To keep people from hunting, this is what they sent me:

Sir,

Good morning, per our discussions if you receive your second pass the
upcoming selection board you will be entitled to Seps pay under Title 10
Sect 1174

(A) if the period of time for which the officer was selected for
continuation on active duty is less than the amount of service that would be
required to qualify the officer for retirement, the officer's discharge or
release from active duty shall be considered to be involuntary for purposes
of paragraph (1)(A);


Let me know if you have further questions.


Respectfully Submitted,

Gunnery Sergeant XXXXXXX
Administrative Chief
Officer Active Duty Separation and Retirement Section (MMSR-2O)
Separation and Retirement Branch
Manpower Management Division
Manpower & Reserve Affairs
Headquarters USMC
3280 Russell Road
Quantico, VA 22134
Com (703) 784-9325
DSN 278-9325
 

pourts

former Marine F/A-18 pilot & FAC, current MBA stud
pilot
Yeah I get that. I should have quoted Randy in my reply. I was responding to his SelRes promotion comment for continued Marine Captains.

As to separation pay: per MMOA declining continuation would not disqualify you from separations pay. I'd want to see that in writing however.

Exactly. Don't be passive-aggressive and say "see reference C" (which is Title 10). No balls if you don't make it clear in the MARADMIN thats already 2 pages long. That is weak and pathetic.
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
It's a game of rates now. Will the USMC run out of Hornets, or the pilots to fly them first?

212vi3b.jpg


122hjwi.jpg
 

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
To keep people from hunting, this is what they sent me:

Sir,

Good morning, per our discussions if you receive your second pass the
upcoming selection board you will be entitled to Seps pay under Title 10
Sect 1174

(A) if the period of time for which the officer was selected for
continuation on active duty is less than the amount of service that would be
required to qualify the officer for retirement, the officer's discharge or
release from active duty shall be considered to be involuntary for purposes
of paragraph (1)(A);


Let me know if you have further questions.


Respectfully Submitted,

Gunnery Sergeant XXXXXXX
Administrative Chief
Officer Active Duty Separation and Retirement Section (MMSR-2O)
Separation and Retirement Branch
Manpower Management Division
Manpower & Reserve Affairs
Headquarters USMC
3280 Russell Road
Quantico, VA 22134

Com (703) 784-9325
DSN 278-9325


Shared to all of my Hornet buddies on facebook. Fuck this with a splintery piece of balsa wood.
 
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