Why are you Leaving?

[pourts]

That having been said, my wingman and I were headed up the blvd when he had a battery failure……repeat gripe, something about the CB's in the gun bay popping, batts no longer getting charged, and you lose IFEI fuel indications (bad for the CV as you won't know how much gas you have left, nor will you know how much fuel is in the externals). Brought him back, with literally everyone, from the Boss, to the E-2, to AW, to probably the wardroom cooks trying to figure out our situation on all radios. They made a ready deck and we came back and trapped. I then sat there in a combat loaded jet for about an hour and a half on a hose while CAG and the CAOC deliberated about whether I would be allowed to launch again, "touch" Afghanistan for a combined In/Out Gas and then simply come home for sortie credit. At the end of the day, the CAOC said GTFO and I shot of the front end with said load to dump and immediately come back Tank+1 on the ball for a night currency trap. One of the more ludicrous flights/days of my career.

THAT having been said, I've also heard it is cheaper to fly a CVN jet in country and take airborne gas than it is to forward deploy similar assets and pay for the gas to get trucked over the Khyber, so maybe it did make sense for all those years…..who knows

That has more to due with bullshit metrics than anything. In Vietnam is was body count. In this war it is sorties generated and hours of CAS provided. If only we can provide enough hours of CAS, then we win! It gets ridiculous. If a JTAC wants to send a jet home 1 hour early because nothing is going on, that is counted as a vul loss, even though it is the "customer" requesting to send the jet home. The bean counters have to have something to count.

 

[DanMa1156]

CSG employment needs to transition toward a supply-based model or we're going to drive these platforms into early retirement by continuing to defer maintenance availability.

I've heard more than a few folks at your level and above use this term. Correct my understand if you don't mind, sir, but this term is used to say use them "when they are actually available" (with no to minimal deferred maintenance), correct?

 

[DanMa1156]

Stood plenty of alert 5/30/60 in the gulf. Never launched. I watched my skipper launch on a 2 am alert, and for a guy who trolled the JO's for taking burner cat shots, his cans were bright white that night. #survival instinct

One of the more interesting alerts I saw was a launch mid-VERTREP, mid CONREP with a T-AOE. Sudden panic call from tower: "612 are you able to stand Papa-Gulf?" Swimmer dressed out super quick and off went 2 Rhinos. The guys on the T-AOE pretty much creamed their pants and it was all they could talk about... CTF-53 even bragged about it during his weekly SITREP up the chain.

 

[azguy]

Stood plenty of alert 5/30/60 in the gulf. Never launched. I watched my skipper launch on a 2 am alert, and for a guy who trolled the JO's for taking burner cat shots, his cans were bright white that night. #survival instinct

So if an Alert 7 is set, how long are you guys strapped in at a time? I'm very surprised that an O-5 CO would be on the hook for that...

My post was lamenting the difficulty (in my experience) of launching AF alerts in that part of the world. Never had any issues with getting CVN DLIs up.

 

[SynixMan]

So if an Alert 7 is set, how long are you guys strapped in at a time? I'm very surprised that an O-5 CO would be on the hook for that...

My post was lamenting the difficulty (in my experience) of launching AF alerts in that part of the world. Never had any issues with getting CVN DLIs up.

Don't know how VFA types did, but Alert 5 in the helo on the CVN was about 2.5 hrs before we switched out. Our O-4s/O-5s would stand them if it were "real deal". Standard overnight Alert 30 off the VACAPES, less so. They'd been around the block and got that you can't ride JOs into the ground on alerts.

Also realize planes launching out of Al Udied literally get departure clearance from Iranian air defense. How's that for ironic.

 

[RobLyman]

Alert schmalert. Meh. If you spend a year in Iraq/Afghanistan on medevac with first up duty four out of six days, with one of your "off" days as battle captain, alert becomes a way of life. I'm not saying that standing alerts isn't stressful, just that doing them more often acclimates you to the stress.

As for the gaps, lack of a CSG in theater has second and third order affects felt throughout the theater. But, it also sets up unique opportunities.

 

[Brett327]

I've heard more than a few folks at your level and above use this term. Correct my understand if you don't mind, sir, but this term is used to say use them "when they are actually available" (with no to minimal deferred maintenance), correct?

Not rocket science - CNAF generates a MAP based upon an executable plan given current/deferred ship/CVW maintenance requirements. I.E., we curtail/gap forward deployed CSGs unless there's a high end/compelling threat. This whole game is a balancing act and we're selling the farm on "presence" ops when we ought to be banking readiness for MCO.

 

[Recovering LSO]

This whole game is a balancing act and we're selling the farm on "presence" ops when we ought to be banking readiness for MCO.

But #presencematters, SECNAV said so.

 

[Brett327]

I agree, presence is great, when you can afford it. The question is whether presence matters more than the material condition of your platform or the readiness of your fleet.

 

[RadicalDude]

I agree, presence is great, when you can afford it. The question is whether presence matters more than the material condition of your platform or the readiness of your fleet.

To include all the second order effects, like burnout and retention of your people...

 

[phrogdriver]

Some of his acolytes who actually worked with him are morons, like Pierre Sprey, and don't reflect well on him. I think some of what he did is legend instead of fact now, I have a hard time figuring out which is which.

Say what you will of Sprey's opinions on air combat, but he is decidedly not a moron. I've met the man, and he is a true polymath, able to converse fluently on just about any topic, military or otherwise.

 

[sevenhelmet]

One of the more interesting alerts I saw was a launch mid-VERTREP, mid CONREP with a T-AOE. Sudden panic call from tower: "612 are you able to stand Papa-Gulf?" Swimmer dressed out super quick and off went 2 Rhinos. The guys on the T-AOE pretty much creamed their pants and it was all they could talk about... CTF-53 even bragged about it during his weekly SITREP up the chain.

Saw something very similar happen when I was a merchant midshipman on the duty oiler USNS Yukon, replenishing USS Kitty Hawk. This was in late '03 or early '04. They launched a Charlie (F/A-18C), an S-3 tanker, and started spinning up the helo while we had 3 hoses hooked up to the CV (and a DDG on the other side, also refueling and running dry stores across). It was pretty sweet, and one of only two times in 6 months on that ship that I actually saw fixed-wing flight ops at sea. Looking back now, it must have been an alert launch. I hadn't thought about that until I read your post.

 

[BigJeffray]

So if an Alert 7 is set, how long are you guys strapped in at a time? I'm very surprised that an O-5 CO would be on the hook for that...

My post was lamenting the difficulty (in my experience) of launching AF alerts in that part of the world. Never had any issues with getting CVN DLIs up.

Typically 1.5-2 hours but each squadron is different. On my cruise our O-5s rarely stood ALT 5's and we almost never stood 5s or 15s in the middle of the night. Each CSG is different though. Earlier this year on the Truman, we launched probably a dozen alerts. Typically we would contact our controller with the response, "Picture clean." This happened semi-regularly and happened during Vertrep at least twice. Absurdity at its finest...

 

[Flash]

Say what you will of Sprey's opinions on air combat, but he is decidedly not a moron. I've met the man, and he is a true polymath, able to converse fluently on just about any topic, military or otherwise.

At least in the past few years though he has been persistent with over the top criticism of some military programs while still basking in the supposed glory of his role in the development of the F-16. I understand that public persona ≠ private persona but as a public critic I think he is a bit of a laughingstock.

 

[BigRed389]

At least in the past few years though he has been persistent with over the top criticism of some military programs while still basking in the supposed glory of his role in the development of the F-16. I understand that public persona ≠ private persona but as a public critic I think he is a bit of a laughingstock.

I sometimes wonder if leaving the ivory tower of academia/think tanks for just a few years of military (hands on experience in his chosen subject of study) service would've helped prevent him from some of his more ridiculous opinions.

I've met more than a few academic experts who were unable to reconcile differences between theory and realities in the field.