Who wants to be an NFO?

[HooverPilot]

I'll initially caveat this statement with an acknowledgment that not all NFOs are front seat types with co-pilot duties. That said, number of traps is a measurement of experience behind the boat. If it's a valid metric for Pilots, then it applies for NFOs. Show me an NFO with 1000 traps vs one that has none, both with an equal number of flight hours, and I'll show you, on balance a better NFO (at the boat) - same deal for pilots. Bottom line, it's a measure of experience at the boat, regardless of designator. To discount it, out of hand, is just ignorance.

Brett

I can accept your point for those NFO's that have co-pilot duties, but I will argue that there are more valid measures of experience for an NFO.

My comments and views on this have come from having an NFO skipper get acknowledged for 1,000 traps when hundreds of his traps were in the BACK SEAT with no view or role in the trap. I have had both an NFO CO get 1K traps and a Pilot CO get 1K traps. There was a vast difference in how this was perceived by the wardroom & Airwing. The Pilot, while a bagger, was acknowledged to be skilled and experienced. The NFO, while he's been around was not perceived to be any different and actually was still though to be pretty much a buffoon in the AC.

Of course my orig comment was posted as a joke, hence the "gentle ribbing" comments.

 

[The Chief]

.... can I count the one while sitting backwards in the COD? ....

I gotta be careful here, above all, at this stage in my life, falling somewhere far below a "wannabe", I want not to be banned.

Years ago, I applied to join "Tailhook", they stated in their application form:

"Regular Membership is open to anyone who has made an arrested carrier landing."

I footnoted my application with the response: "Depending on your definition of "made", in about 120 or so instances, I was sitting in an aircraft that made a successful arrested landing on a CVA/CVS".

Well by golly, they accepted that and made me a regular member.

 

[FLYTPAY]

Counting traps is not a valid measure of an NFO's experience. Years of service, flight hours, # of cruises, qualification levels, etc. What happens to an NFO to Pilot transition, does he get to pick up his trap count where he left off? Sorry you and I don't agree, but I will always laugh at an NFO strutting around a centurion patch, It is a waste of thread...But I will respect their missile shot patches because I know that they employ the weapon systems. See the diff?

I agree that traps are not a measure of an NFO's experience. It is a measure of the amount of trust he has gained in his pilot, whether or not the pilot is cocky or not. I have seen traps from the right seat of the Hoov that could very well have the Barry Bonds "*" next to them. (the trap was merely an act of God and not a demonstration of precise skill.) For the pilot transition, my trap count is at zero.

 

[HeyJoe]

I was going to bash some FO's today, then I saw Flying Low got banned - so I figured I'd keep my mouth shut.

How about your wife? Does she join in, too? Unlike the "other woman" who was unwittingly brought into the fray by her spouse (with no street cred...the wife that is), your wife has credentials to offer an opinion.

 

[MrSaturn]

I really like the video. Some communities are harder to explain to midshipmen wanting to join the Navy. While some jobs are easy to explain or are shown often in TV or media. (Pilot flies the plane. Infantry runs around with a rifle. AF plays dress up) Some other communities are not. I knew quite a bit about NFO only because I had several teachers who were.

The aviation community does a really good job of showing what they do and why its important. I tried looking around for other communities on youtube and this is what I got.



The rest of the SWO are helo flyovers. Including a guy in a flightsuit making fun of them.

Subs
They have about a dozen more movies.

The seals have hundreds of videos explaining and showing what they do.

So does EOD.
EOD

The seabees-

Intel and IW- I keep gettting conspiracy nuts but I would assume it looks like this
IW


Thats all you can go back to your brotherly in-fighting.

 

[HeyJoe]

Smart move....a LTJG should be seen and not heard. Get a little rank and we'll let you talk again.

Hmm, do you even have an ID card yet (as active duty) or are you sporting a dependant's ID card?? :icon_smil

 

[pennst8]

Including a guy in a flightsuit making fun of them.

Big surprise... but that was hilarious.

 

[bunk22]

My aircrew counted traps..........they had their own patch. Not the same patch as the pilots of course. Loved my aircrew.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I gotta be careful here, above all, at this stage in my life, falling somewhere far below a "wannabe", I want not to be banned.

Retired Master Chief and SES....there is no way you are a "wannabe".

 

[HAL Pilot]

How about your wife? Does she join in, too? Unlike the "other woman" who was unwittingly brought into the fray by her spouse (with no street cred...the wife that is), your wife has credentials to offer an opinion.

And I promise not to call her the c-word....just calling her a SWO is mean enough....

Besides, having met you, I can't believe your wife is the stereotypical SWO. She must have been a little naive when she first joined. Obviously she didn't check airwarriors.com prior to signing up. :sleep_125

 

[Cordespc]

Big surprise... but that was hilarious.

Hey, that dude's my on-wing. Funny, though somewhat random.

 

[MrSaturn]

Hey, that dude's my on-wing. Funny, though somewhat random.

An ENS is your on-wing?

 

[Flathatter13]

What the hell, I'll throw in like everyone else for the benefit of the newbies watching.


I learned early on a lesson as a "butterbar" that I only wish I would have understood better then. My instructor during Advanced Fighter Training at Tyndall told me "unless you can fly the plane and climb in the other seats and do those jobs at the same time, learn to appreciate your crew"

Well of course at the time being young and foolish I "politely" explained to said instructor that wso's were a waste of time and better used for extra fuel, he there after took me up and carrying his wso with him proceeded to KICK MY ASS, in an F-4 no less - later happily showing me the gun camera of me being killed over and over and rarely pulling over 4 g's while I was racking the plane around.

Turned out later to find out my instructor was a Vietnam vet with 2 kills and 5000+ hours and 100+ missions. - The point here being sometimes older guys aren't just old guys with stories sometimes they know exactly how to kick your ass and listening and respecting them is a wise thing to do.

The moral - they call it "Aircrew" for a reason, it takes two of you to employ the aircraft (4 for prowlers) and having an extra set of hands and eyes is never something to take lightly. My WSO was priceless, made my job in the frontseat easier and he and I had no illusions, I flew and he worked the systems, neither of us could do the others job and our own at the same time and neither wanted to.

Like A4's said my wso was the best friend I ever had/have and saved my life in fact, to underrate them mearly because they are not "pilots" is extremely ignorant and a true sign of you being both nieve and young.





So that everyone is 100% clear I am not directing any of this towards - Flyinglow - I am writing for the benefit of the younger crowd watching. :icon_wink

 

[Cordespc]

An ENS is your on-wing?

Well, I assume that he was at one time.....

 

[Flying Low]

To Flathatter13-- I agree with you. My point was completely missed. I was never saying that NFO was not a cool, valuable or important job. I understand the importance of crew. Having flown in the back when I was enlisted and having a crew once more after I got my wings just further reinstalled those notions. I loved having a salty crew chief. Especially out in the NAG. I would often ask my crew chief what he thought of in tough situations. I would be a fool not to relay on the collective experience from the crew. So blah, blah, blah what is the point? My point was I think more want to be Pilots over NFO's. Judging by all the post I guess I was wrong. When I was at API I remember lots of SNFO's trying to figure out how they could become SNA's. Never saw a SNA wanting to become a SNFO. I guess it could happen. But I’m not talking about getting NPQ or other things. Just merely as a choice. BTW read the related threads at the bottom of this page.