What is flex drill?

[MIDNJAC]

My mentality is that I will burn every single drill available per FY. Anything left come Sep, I'm burning. This is my 3rd full year in the reserves, and I still haven't left a single drill on the table (knock on wood). From a simple budgeting perspective, it helps you not accidentally get behind, and if you have a regular schedule, it also helps with your $$$$ expectations. As you get more experienced with the new language and lifestyle, you will learn creative ways to get the best bang for your buck/time (IDTT being a good example). FWIW, I believe drill vs AT/ADT/orders break even point is orders > 30 days. Anything less than that, and you are losing money if you still have drills in your piggy bank. For an O-4 at max out flight pay, you earn about half the pay on orders per day, unless you are getting full BAH which is only invoked for orders > 30. I think even then, you are losing a few dollars. Other things to keep in mind.....if you have admin stuff to do, whether that be some sort of annual requirement, or actual work to do, you better not be putting on a uniform for less than an RMP. I love this job, and I'm lucky to have it, but time is money and the clock is running.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

I always get 21 days E-AT, as much RMPs or ATPs they'll hand out, and burn all my drills doing unit admin. Unfortunately for non fliers the HQ units can be stingy with passing out additional drills.

 

[Swanee]

And the best thing that's happened to the Navy Reserve in the past 2-3 years of COVID is the appreciation for telework and the cultural loosening of restrictions on getting credit for it. The rules are still borderline dumb, but they're still malleable enough that a good CO can go to bat for his/her people to get them paid (or at least points) for keeping the unit running day-to-day from their home offices.

It's not just the Navy Reserve- The ANG is onboard. Are you an airline guy with a day off in BFE, or Hawaii? Log in, read your email, knock out that SOES re-up and log an RDU. You're done before you finish your morning bagel.

My mentality is that I will burn every single drill available per FY. Anything left come Sep, I'm burning. This is my 3rd full year in the reserves, and I still haven't left a single drill on the table (knock on wood). From a simple budgeting perspective, it helps you not accidentally get behind, and if you have a regular schedule, it also helps with your $$$$ expectations. As you get more experienced with the new language and lifestyle, you will learn creative ways to get the best bang for your buck/time (IDTT being a good example). FWIW, I believe drill vs AT/ADT/orders break even point is orders > 30 days. Anything less than that, and you are losing money if you still have drills in your piggy bank. For an O-4 at max out flight pay, you earn about half the pay on orders per day, unless you are getting full BAH which is only invoked for orders > 30. I think even then, you are losing a few dollars. Other things to keep in mind.....if you have admin stuff to do, whether that be some sort of annual requirement, or actual work to do, you better not be putting on a uniform for less than an RMP. I love this job, and I'm lucky to have it, but time is money and the clock is running.

The DSG guys around here who are smart never leave a drill or AFTP or day of AT on the table. It's your money, not anyone else's.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

The DSG guys around here who are smart never leave a drill or AFTP or day of AT on the table. It's your money, not anyone else's.

To add to that, make sure you track all your admin work for non-pay periods if there aren't additional drills for you. If you're an DH/XO/OIC or above then there really isn't any reason you can't get to the max allowed points per year.

I'm not saying to cheat the system or make stuff up. Just don't give uncle sam work without at least getting a point for it.

 

[nittany03]

I'm not saying to cheat the system or make stuff up. Just don't give uncle sam work without at least getting a point for it.

This right here. Log your time. 4 hours of Navy work needs to be AT LEAST an unpaid ATP. FFS, we're the only branch of the Federal government allowed to work for free, and also that demand signal (X number of unpaid drills executed) needs to get on briefing slides to CNRFC/CNR staff, and it needs to accurately reflect the unpaid work that's happening to keep the reserves running. Otherwise we as an institution are lying to our leadership about our true needs.

If you don't put in for additional drills, you're fucking not only yourself but all the other reservists come every POM cycle.

 

[Swanee]

This right here. Log your time. 4 hours of Navy work needs to be AT LEAST an unpaid ATP. FFS, we're the only branch of the Federal government allowed to work for free, and also that demand signal (X number of unpaid drills executed) needs to get on briefing slides to CNRFC/CNR staff, and it needs to accurately reflect the unpaid work that's happening to keep the reserves running. Otherwise we as an institution are lying to our leadership about our true needs.

If you don't put in for additional drills, you're fucking not only yourself but all the other reservists come every POM cycle.

Unpaid drill? You guys actually make guys do that?

 

[MIDNJAC]

Yeah I have the same real question......what is the criteria for an unpaid drill? I figured that was a IRR thing only, is it real in SELRES too?

 

[nittany03]

Unpaid drill? You guys actually make guys do that?

Yeah I have the same real question . . . what is the criteria for an unpaid drill? I figured that was a IRR thing only, is it real in SELRES too?

Depends on your RPD and their budget. I work for a COCOM now, where funding is relatively fat. My previous gig was TACRONicity working for SURFPAC, where funding was . . . hit and miss, to put it nicely.

The criteria for an unpaid drill is simple . . . you can prove you did the time, and the RPD has no money for paid drills, so you do an unpaid ATP for points only. Like I said, anywhere else in the Federal government, due to the Antideficiency Act, it is go-to-jail illegal to do government work without spending Congressionally-appropriated funds on said work . . . unless you're a reservist. In which case, fuck you and take your retirement point and no pay.

Welcome to life in the real reserves outside hardware squadron #FirstWorldProblems.

 

[MIDNJAC]

GD Nittany, that is insanity. How did this even become a thing? I hate everything about the facts that you lay out before us. And it is also (need I even say it), dereliction of duty for a NRC superior/flag to accept that there are two standards. Completely unacceptable (I know I'm preaching to the choir).

 

[nittany03]

GD Nittany, that is insanity. How did this even become a thing? I hate everything about the facts that you lay out before us. And it is also (need I even say it), dereliction of duty for a NRC superior/flag to accept that there are two standards. Completely unacceptable (I know I'm preaching to the choir).

I don't disagree, and there's a great article about it from an Army person here. As best I can tell, as a layman who at least did Legal O Skool back in the day, the argument around it is that because you get a retirement point per drill, you're not technically violating the Antideficiency Act, because if you retire, Congress will appropriate more funds for your retirement based on this one unpaid retirement point. But that's still sketchy as all hell, and I'd love for a smart JAG or civilian attorney to make a good argument in the right case that sets a sympathetic Federal judge up to blow it away.

The problem I see is that we get our funding as units from the annual OSPLAN we submit. If your CO and OPSO don't suck, your OSPLAN should include enough paid drills for people to do their thing. But if they screw up or get told "no," what is the mechanism to make it right other than unpaid drills? Sure, the RPD should be able to raid other pillars for money. And the CO should demand that the RPD do that if he/she has a valid need. But I've seen on-the-ball RPDs who would do that, and I've also seen ROAD program TAR shitbird RPDs where if you asked them to do that, the "too hard" light would conveniently come on. At some point, it becomes "what battles do you fight?"

 

[Flash]

This right here. Log your time. 4 hours of Navy work needs to be AT LEAST an unpaid ATP. FFS, we're the only branch of the Federal government allowed to work for free, and also that demand signal (X number of unpaid drills executed) needs to get on briefing slides to CNRFC/CNR staff, and it needs to accurately reflect the unpaid work that's happening to keep the reserves running. Otherwise we as an institution are lying to our leadership about our true needs.

Pretty sure you need just 3 hours for an unpaid, though I rarely did those as my unit was pretty good about usually getting extras for the extra work we did.

Unpaid drill? You guys actually make guys do that?

We never made folks do it but if you did the work and there were no drills available we always made sure folks knew it was an option. Usually it was more senior folks who usually did it after burning through all their drills to include extras, I only did about a dozen at most my entire career.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

But I've seen on-the-ball RPDs who would do that, and I've also seen ROAD program TAR shitbird RPDs where if you asked them to do that, the "too hard" light would conveniently come on. At some point, it becomes "what battles do you fight?"

That has always been my problem.

At some point the work needs to be done and you can't just miss deadlines for exercises/training/etc...So you just end up biting the bullet and doing the work. I can't in good faith hose some guy under me because the big Navy can't figure out how to get its act together and send me some extra drills.

 

[nittany03]

Pretty sure you need just 3 hours for an unpaid, though I rarely did those as my unit was pretty good about usually getting extras for the extra work we did.

D’oh! Yep. That’s what I get for posting after having an Old Fashioned when I was already sleepy.

 

[MIDNJAC]

You guys all have valid practical points, but it is still ridiculous and unsat IMO. I get it for a senior O-5 about to retire who is more concerned with points than they are with being paid (they're losing money either way by "coming to work" most likely), but that is more of a "by choice" situation. For JO's, possibly reserve babies, that's insane. They are probably flexing their real jobs, losing money, and also getting behind at those same real jobs, just so that they can get credited with a couple points, and they're gonna have to balance those two lives for years if not decades. The SELRES + normal desk job life sucks hard, even if just pretty minimal on the USNR side. I've lived it, can't imagine also not getting paid for it.

 

[number9]

This right here. Log your time. 4 hours of Navy work needs to be AT LEAST an unpaid ATP. FFS, we're the only branch of the Federal government allowed to work for free, and also that demand signal (X number of unpaid drills executed) needs to get on briefing slides to CNRFC/CNR staff, and it needs to accurately reflect the unpaid work that's happening to keep the reserves running. Otherwise we as an institution are lying to our leadership about our true needs.

If you don't put in for additional drills, you're fucking not only yourself but all the other reservists come every POM cycle.

Can you please explain this to me like I'm a brand new butterbar (which I am)? In the words of the guy from Margin Call, speak to me as you would a young child - or a golden retriever. What work can qualify as an additional drill, and how much does there need to be to do so?