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weights vs calisthenics

vincentjus

New Member
A question aimed at graduates of OCS, but anyone feel free to answer.

I'm trying to improve my sit up numbers using the training plan on navy-prt.com. I use a sit up bar and made moderate improvement using that plan. (28 year old male, 79 push ups, 66 sit ups) I only did 48 sit ups on my initial test.
When I was active duty I didn't like to train doing push ups since they were less comfortable and less effective (for me) when it was time to take the PRT. I lifted free weights while lying on a bench and would generally do eighty something push ups on the prt. Sit ups were always a problem though.

The question is will sit up training with weights help when I report to OCS? Is lifting free weights recommended?


Also here's a link I found on improving prt performance

http://www.citadel.edu/admissions/c/images/PTInfo_2010.pdf
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
I haven't graduated OCS yet, but I do think that weights are a great way to improve fitness performance. I lift regularly, and like you pushups are my strongest category. As long as you tweak the workout to strength and endurance (moderate amount of reps with short rest between sets or even super-setting exercises), it will be beneficial to lift.

Doing some situps and other ab exercises with a medicine ball certainly could help out, although I personally don't do this. The thing I like to do is get a set of 25 situps/v-ups/leg ups inbetween my other weight sets. Keeps the heartrate up and knocks out abs rather than just standing around waiting to do the next set.
 
I think they key is finding what works best for you. I stick exclusively to weight training (I throw in some circuit training regularly for the cardio) to stay fit. I don't do pushups or situps. I have never had trouble maxing both come PRT time and running a respectable time (~9:45 or so). If you try and focus on exercises that require complex muscle movement (deadlift, pullups, clean and jerk, bench, and squats - absolute best exercise IMO), then I think you'll find yourself making some nice gains. Nearly all of these exercises will strengthen your core and should make situps easier for you.

Good luck.
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
General fitness is accomplished by a variety of exercises, both calisthenic and weight training programs. At OCS we were encouraged (in the latter part after week 7 or so) to use the base gym and lift weights, so yes it is recommended.
 

Amall

Member
Weight training is a must always. If you are looking to improve your situps for the PRT, I have not found that using "weights" for your core workout is that beneficial. For example, i think the ab machines at the gym are a waste of time. Things to do: using a resist-a-ball is great for your abs because one is able to get full range of motion of the exercise, bosu balls, med ball twists and partner throws, bicycles, planks, etc. The key (as is to any workout) is varying your ab routine/lower back so you're not doing the exact same thing everytime. (Kickboxing is great for your core because you're holding your body up) Remember your abs are a muscle too and should only be worked every other day. Because you are trying to improve your PRT, train to specificity- so curl-ups PRT style (which also involve the hip flexors)should be a part of your ab routines a majority of the time.
 

vincentjus

New Member
Thanks for the feedback! I'll be back in the weight room.
What I would do with weights is lay on my back and lift two dumbbells. I began with 40 pound weights and did 3 sets of 8-12. If I could do more than 12 I would move up to dumbbells 5 lbs heavier and use those for a couple of weeks or so. The heaviest I've done was 70 without a spotter.

What I was thinking about doing is using 3 sets of 12 using a barbell plate or medicine ball and increasing weight as needed. Possibly on an inclined bench and I'll try the resist-a-ball also. (I doubt our gym has medicine balls available though.) I've always preferred free weights over weight machines. I'll try a few different things and see what works best.
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Remember your abs are a muscle too

Good piece of advice. The only way muscles grow is with resistance. I see meatheads with huge chests and arms and NO abs doing crunches at the gym. Hundreds and hundreds of crunches, with seemingly no results. If it's bench or squats, they'll pile on the weight, but with abs, they are confused as to why thousands of crunches leaves them with a lean but less-than-impressive stomach.

Idiots.

Best way to get a six pack (and max SU on the PRT) is to do decline crunches/situps/russian twists with a medicine ball. I'll vary it and use a 15lb medicine ball or maybe a 25lb plate. Another favorite is to attach straps to your ankles and do weighted leg lifts on the pulley machine. Works GREAT and you'll knock out 110+ SU in probably <1:30 after doing this for a while...
 

zen

New Member
Its getting a little off topic, but if you are doing a weightlifting program performing an abdominal workout is not really necessary. Doing proper exercises, especially complex muscle movements, will always do a lot for your core. Can't squat a lot with a weak mid section. I personally don't do ab work at all and hit 90 sit ups. ( Of course lifting didn't help me at all with my 60 pushups I hit :( )
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
One little tidbit of advice I'm going to pass on that I just got from a newly commissioned Ensign who drilled it into our heads: all this stuff is great for increasing strength, but practice situps and push ups specifically to make sure your form is PERFECT. And not perfect as in the Navy PRT manual, but perfect as in the way the DIs want you to do them at OCS. It is natural for people to break form when you get tired, whether you can do 100 sit ups or 50. However, according to him if the DI catches you doing this, they are going to either subtract points or zero you out.

For situps, hands must always remain with all fingers clasped together ("knife hands"), and neither arms nor hands can ever come off your chest -- not even a little. Oh, and contrary to the PRT manual, you canNOT rest in the down position for situps. That last part was a surprise to me.

For pushups, your hands must have all fingers clasped together. Your head must always face forward, and your arms must break 90 degrees. Contrary to the Navy PRT manual, you canNOT move your hands once you have placed them on the floor (Navy manual only states that you cannot pick them up off the ground).

My recruiter didn't stress this at all, and I'm guessing that a significant amount of recruiters don't because things change all the time at OCS and most recruiters have been in the service for at least 4 years. If you're getting tired, it's better to rest a bit and pump out a few more at perfect form than to go for a high number at less than perfect form.

In a nutshell, that means don't ignore calisthenics at the expense of weights. You should still do these PRT-specific exercises, with perfect form, so that you don't have a shocker come PRT time.

Its getting a little off topic, but if you are doing a weightlifting program performing an abdominal workout is not really necessary. Doing proper exercises, especially complex muscle movements, will always do a lot for your core. Can't squat a lot with a weak mid section. I personally don't do ab work at all and hit 90 sit ups.
Quite honestly, there is a lot of debate among fitness professionals about this topic. I don't believe either one is "correct" for getting 6-pack abs. However, since situps, butterfly kicks, and other ab-specific exercises are going to be a core part of OCS, I think it's a good idea to practice them.
 

feddoc

Really old guy
Contributor
Straight Leg lifts will strengthen your hip muscles, not your abs. Using weighted situps can help, but be aware that abdominal muscles are better suited to be exercised to fatigue.
 

mttaggart

Member
Well, looks like I'm gonna resurrect this slightly decayed thread.

I'm a Kung Fu instructor, and since flexibility is paramount to what we do, I've avoided weights like the plague. But here I am getting ready to go to OCS, and it looks like at least some weight training would really benefit me.

So does anyone have any tips on maintaining flexibility during a weights program? And to head off the "Stretch, idiot," comments--I know. Chinese martial arts are gooooood at stretching. I'm looking for specifics as a complete stranger to the weights world.

Thanks.
 

Amall

Member
I have not been to OCS however, many of my friends and clients have and have told me stories involving lots and lots of sets and reps of various exercises when they get RPT'ed. So essentially, DIs are pushing you to muscle failure and testing the abilities of your muscular endurance as opposed to your actual muscular strength. That being said, I would recommend a program based around that- muscular endurance. Worry less about how much weight and more about how many reps you can do until failure. Of course, you will be challenging yourself with the weight but, it shouldn't be any type of one rep max stuff. Try pyramid sets. Also throw in some plyometric stuff just to get your body used to those types of activities that i know you will be doing in OCS (ex. bends and thrusts, mountain climbers, etc.) As far as flexibility goes, really, all you need to do is stretch before, during, and after weight training. And by working more on your muscular endurance, you will not bulk up to the uncomfortable, unflexible levels that you have been avoiding. PM me for more details or questions.
 

voodooqueen

DAR Lapsarian
Well, looks like I'm gonna resurrect this slightly decayed thread.

I'm a Kung Fu instructor, and since flexibility is paramount to what we do, I've avoided weights like the plague. But here I am getting ready to go to OCS, and it looks like at least some weight training would really benefit me.

So does anyone have any tips on maintaining flexibility during a weights program? And to head off the "Stretch, idiot," comments--I know. Chinese martial arts are gooooood at stretching. I'm looking for specifics as a complete stranger to the weights world.

Thanks.
Don't do really heavy weights; do more reps. Remember that you are lifting your own weight in a lot of kung-fu exercises--so in a way you do lift weights. You just need to really warm up and stretch out, like always. Some weight training can enhance your fighting skills. You can do hand techniques with 5 pound dumbells to build up speed--that sort of thing.

You probably don't need to do a lot of leg work, but remember that you need to plan a program that works balancing muscles--for example, you need to do biceps and triceps equally, quads and hams equally, chest and back equally. You would be well served to find a good trainer who can put you on a program.
 
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