VANCE decision for a Marine

[FLY_USMC]

This post is set to Van Halen's "Right Now"......

Right now I liked Vance. Right now I flew the Tweet. Right now the Tweet is not the T-6. Right now the gouge was plentiful. Right now I made some very good friends at Vance. Right now Selection Night at the O-Club is outstanding. Right now you can get shit canned at the O-Club at Vance. Right now that isn't to be said for Navy bases. Right now no one will even bat an eye. Right now the O-Club is walking distance from the flightline. Right now we didn't do 12 hour days every day for 6 months. Right now I had to call 1stLt's Sir. Right now my 8 hour days were spent studying for 3 and bullshiating for 5. Right now joint training is the future, get used to it. Right now, personally, I think the Chair Force is Gay. Right now volunteering for Vance allowed me to bypass an entire company as well as my own when starting API. Right now I met some awesome IP's at Vance. Right now I realized at Vance why everybody hates T-38/Fighter guys. Right now Marine Corps jet guys are not like the Chair Force's. Right now I enjoy seasons. Right now I like the Midwest. Right now I was 2 hours from my hometown. Right now I have posted all this before, Search.

 

[A4sForever]

My advice is obviously somewhat dated )) -- like @ 40 years (?) ... but think about it: if you want to fly NAVY/MARINE -- go do it. If you want to fly Air Force ... same-o, same-o.

The Air Force culture is NOT the same as the NAVY; more's the pity I sometimes think. We had some AF trained USMC guys that I had to CQ in WestPac -- granted, slightly different circumstances, but the priciple is still the same -- and half of them DQ'ed. Different training, mindset, culture in the AF ... and these guys were Fleet MARINES, for God's sake !! They just hadn't learned to do it the "NAVY" way ... you want to be around NAVY Instructors and STUDs, not AF.

The T-6 ?? You won't remember it as you move along -- it will become yesterday's news ....

The Gun Boss @ VT-4 was an AF exchange Officer. He wore spit-shined jack boots and looked like a Nazi .... and during our in-brief, in addition to scaring the living shit out of us, he shouted:

"The AF has NOTHING to compare to the training you will get here ... and it JUST MAKES ME SICK"!!

He was one scary S.O.B. ... so guess who I got for my Gun X-Ride???

But his point still remains to this day. I guess some things don't change .... much .

If you want to FLY NAVY -- GO NAVY.

 

[Python]

Hmm this got me thinking, when will the navy start using T-6s in primary?

 

[Morgan81]

Hmm this got me thinking, when will the navy start using T-6s in primary?

A few years off depending on where you're talking. There has to be a lot of changes.

 

[wingsB4rings]

By now, I don't know how the answer could be any clearer.

 

[Tom]

Whiting is slated to get T-6's in the summer of 2009, but expect the date to change.

 

[Scoob]

It will make you glad you're not in the AF.

That's what IAs are for.

 

[Ektar]

I'm in primary in Milton at the moment. Both of my roommates are AF guys in VT-3. They have freely admitted that they are glad they are doing the Navy training and that AF training sucks a$$. In fact, both of them want to fly multi-engine props so they can go do advanced with the Navy in Corpus (Didn't work out that way for one of them...). So, if the AF guys are trying to get their wings through the Navy training pipeline, I think that would be a clue, don't you?

So, now with that Sherlock, I hope you can take this 'clue' and make the right decision.

 

[NozeMan]

I can't understand why you'd go to Vance on purpose. You learn to fly the Air Force way....and it will only help you if you are staying in the AIR FORCE. I know plenty of guys from Advanced (Helos) that did Primary at Vance. I don't think it sets you up for success as well as Primary at Whiting/Corpus. You learn the AF flight rules, EPs on the GROUND, and learn different procedures. I will say that the Vance studs are much better w/ the GPS (KLN-900) than those who did Primary in Navy flight school. Vance RIs put more of an emphasis on GPS approaches vs. the Navy (I think I did 1 actual GPS approach in the T-34). That part was definitely a good prep for Advanced where we did a significant ammount of GPS approaches in the TH-57. Otherwise you just have to UNLEARN the last 6 months of your training. Very difficult to do, especially when training is ratcheted up significantly in Advanced (speaking from the Helo side).

Don't voluntarily do it. If you get sent there, just keep an open mind about it and be prepared to brain dump EVERYTHING.

EDIT: After rereading my post I'd like to clarify:

My digs on Vance have nothing to do with the guys that actually went there. The OP mentioned that he wants to be a good pilot, well all do! I can't speak the to stick skills that studs learn while doing the JSUPT program in the T-6. My gripes are aimed at the rest of the experience: different procedures from Navy flight school, different ways of briefing, being treated like complete sh!t. I can't speak inteligently on how Vance develops your stick and rudder skills. Maybe IPs could shed light on that.

 

[CaptainRon]

I can't understand why you'd go to Vance on purpose. You learn to fly the Air Force way....and it will only help you if you are staying in the AIR FORCE. I know plenty of guys from Advanced (Helos) that did Primary at Vance. It does not set you up for success. You learn the AF flight rules, EPs on the GROUND, and learn different procedures. About the only positive thing I'd say about Vance is the studs who went there are good w/ the GPS. Otherwise you just have to UNLEARN the last 6 months of your training. Very difficult to do, especially when training is ratcheted up significantly in Advanced (speaking from the Helo side).

Don't voluntarily do it. If you get sent there, just keep an open mind about it and be prepared to brain dump EVERYTHING.

Wow. That really makes you wonder why the Navy wants anybody to go there at all if it's such a different experience.

For the record, I was voluntold; I did not choose Vance. Luck of the draw.

 

[arbor]

Anyone that has been there and could share a bit on what really happens there would help me.

http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13550

Seems pretty catch-all to me.

 

[mmx1]

Wow. That really makes you wonder why the Navy wants anybody to go there at all if it's such a different experience.

For the record, I was voluntold; I did not choose Vance. Luck of the draw.

Well, it's different and it's not appealing for personal reasons, but it's not necessarily worse training. I'd like to know the reasons, but I'd guess it has to do with cross-pollination of AF/Naval aviators and diversity of experiences.

 

[ChuckMK23]

I would enjoy seeing a thread that talks about in detail - culture differences between Naval Aviation and USAF in Training and operation.

I'm nottalking about a regurge of the infamous (fictional?) letter about "Navy Pilots vs. AF Pilots" - we've been there and done that thread too many times.

But specifically how has the culture differences been played out? How are things in theatre - SWA and Afghanistan?

Mindset? Tasking? Training? Flying? Tanking? Bommbs on target? Using your noggin in the cockpit (headwork). The central control structure of the AF (AWACS) vs the Naval Aviator in the cockpit. E-2 ops versus AWACS.

and A4s should moderate..

Think of this as a little mini "jointness" class.

Keep it real and within OPSEC - but more importantly if you have some decent opinions, share them!

MOD - please split this post and start a new thread if you agree!

 

[NozeMan]

Wow. That really makes you wonder why the Navy wants anybody to go there at all if it's such a different experience.

For the record, I was voluntold; I did not choose Vance. Luck of the draw.

Like I said, keep an open mind. It'll be a dramatic change for you after primary, just be prepared for it.

 

[Scoob]

It's not that difficult:

Air Force - believes in massing resources to attack a problem and solve it...the first time.

Navy - believes in attacking a problem given the resources at hand to solve it...no matter what.


Air Force - won't say yes without absolute confidence in ability to accomplish a task.

Navy - will never say no, regardless of whether the task can be accomplished or not.


Air Force - sends almost exclusively officers charging into harm's way.

Navy - officers must lead and order enlisted men into harm's way.


Air Force - Doctor's consortium.

Navy - Diesel Mechanic convention.