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Using the GI Bill on active duty

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
If you're going the route A4s is talking about (type rating with ATP) I would suggest Higher Power Aviation in Dallas or KS Aviation in Phoenix. I did my 727 type (Oct 2005) at the first and my 737 type (Feb 2002) at the second. (However K&S has changed owners since I went there so my recommendation may be dated.) I used GI Bill at both.

As far as I know, Southwest is the only major airline that requires the type rating prior to employment. There are some "niche" airlines that require types too, such are Casino Express. None of the regional airlines require types.

To use your GI Bill for flight training, the training center must be either FAR part 141 or 142 and approved by the VA. GI Bill will pay 60% of the approved charges. At Higher Power, that equates to a straight 60% of the bill. K&S used to do creative stuff like including your hotel room in the price so it was not a straight 60% of the bill.

The ATP ride is the same thing as a type rating ride. So it's a 2fer. You will have to have the ATP written test completed before attending. Plan on either place taking 2 weeks. After you get your GI Bill reimbursement (1 to 2 months after finishing - you pay up front), it will cost you about $3000 to $3500 best guess. All flight training is done in a simulator and uses airline procedures.

Another way many military pilots go about getting their ATP is through Airline Transport Professionals . They are NOT GI Bill but have the advantage of being a 3 day course that includes the written for about $2000. The course is in a Piper Seminole (twin piston) with no ground school. It's all single piloted and they have longer courses (for more $) for those who may not have flown lately or who have never flown a light civil twin. I did my ATP at ATPs Phoenix in May 1999.

If I was you, I'd probably bite the bullet, pay the extra $ and go the 737 type rating route. Southwest actually sends People Department pilot hiring reps to Higher Power for a briefing during each course. The two companies are very tight and most HPA trainees end up getting a SWA interview. Plus, SWA is one of the few that will interview & hire you prior to your release from active duty. You will save money in the long run this way if SWA is your goal. However, be warned that currently SWA is only hiring about 35% of those that interview. The good news is that they are hring a lot for the next few years (500+ per year).

If you have no desire to go to SWA, just get the ATP at ATPs as it is the cheapest and easiest option.

A note of caution - in most cases, type ratings are usually worthless without time in the aircraft (I know this from experience). They may be a tie breaker between 2 applicants but that is about it. SWA is the major airline exception. That is why I would recommend a 737 type with the ATP and that is it unless you have a job offer contingent upon obtaining a specific type (and that is a whole different can of worms). As A4s said. type ratings can be an expensive waste of money. I have 3 and used GI Bill to cover part of the cost on all of them. I was able to obtain either employer funds (727) or unemployment funds (737 and CE500 - thanks to my 2 Hawaiian furloughs) to cover the remaining costs. I would not have any (except maybe the 737 type for SWA) if I had to pay for them with my money. I applied to at least 50 Citation pilot jobs and everyone wanted at least 100 hours in the aircraft plus the type (I had 20 hours).
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
A4sForever said:
Type ratings USED to be a very big deal to be competitive when the airlines were hiring and thousands of guys (literally) were applying. But then you had to have your F/E rating as well. An F/E?? What's that??
Funny, actually. I remember being in high school and planning out my aviation career (before I saw the light and became a SWO). F/E was a BIG deal. Have the airlines stopped flying the 727? I know the last few times I've flown, I haven't ridden in one and really haven't noticed one on the line either.

A4s said:
I later paid for an expensive type-rating out of my own pocket after my first airline crashed and burned
Pan Am....Eastern?....Braniff?

A4s said:
I got hired by another airline on charm and good looks :D
You funny guy you. We've seen your picture and read your posts.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Steve Wilkins said:
Funny, actually. I remember being in high school and planning out my aviation career (before I saw the light and became a SWO). F/E was a BIG deal. Have the airlines stopped flying the 727? I know the last few times I've flown, I haven't ridden in one and really haven't noticed one on the line either.
Up until recently, having the FE written test completed was a requirement to get an interview at almost all the majors. They would get you the license as part of your training. In the last 4 years, most airlines have retired the 727s, DC-10s, early model 747s, etc, that use FEs. There are some exceptions (Fedex, UPS, & NWA for example) but they are getting rarer.

There are still many smaller "niche" and "2nd tier" airlines that still use FEs so having the written is still not a bad idea. The places that require the actual license usually use PFEs or Professional FEs. These are non-pilots who will never move into a window seat. Most PFEs are also A&Ps (mechanics) and are in charge of fixing the plane when it breaks away from home base. We use a PFE on the 727 I fly and he gets greasy all the time. 727s are old planes and require a lot of TLC.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
Steve Wilkins said:
.......Have the airlines stopped flying the 727? ......

I believe some small "start-ups", charter outfits, and Air Botswana still fly them ....

727-PW(AirNikon)A.N003003%5B320%5D.jpg
setImgWidth();
 

saltpeter

Registered User
Call ALL ATP's. You will be able to recieve VA benefits since they are an FAR part 141 school. Also, they're quick - two to three days. The plane is a Piper seminole which is super slow and easy to fly. They'll send you the pseudo P.O.H, civilian NATOPS, only alot thiner, to study before you get there. It will be a distant memory before you know it and they'll take care of the paperwork for you.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
saltpeter said:
Call ALL ATP's. You will be able to recieve VA benefits since they are an FAR part 141 school. Also, they're quick - two to three days. The plane is a Piper seminole which is super slow and easy to fly. They'll send you the pseudo P.O.H, civilian NATOPS, only alot thiner, to study before you get there. It will be a distant memory before you know it and they'll take care of the paperwork for you.
ALL ATPS is the same place (Airline Transport Professionals) I mentioned above. They are a part 61 training school and are NOT VA approved for GI Bill benefits. There are a few items that you can get the VA to reimburse under the GI Bill with them (testing fees for example), but it is a small portion and no where near the 60% a VA GI Bill approved program reimburses.

BTW, I just called them to confirm this as I did not want to put out bad gouge. Their number is 1-800-ALL-ATPS.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
^ HAL's right ... nothing has changed with regards to school FAA classifications and what GI benefits the VA will pay for the last hundred years ....
 

HooverPilot

CODPilot
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Gentlemen, Thanks for the thorough info. I've got 2 years left on my commitment so I'm just starting to think about what the future lies. Not even positive that I'm going to get out. I would like to get the ATP so I have more options in 2 years but I have thought about adding on the Type and even the F/E written if I have the time.

Now to find the cash for my 40%... Will TA help out there? :)
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
HooverPilot said:
Gentlemen, Thanks for the thorough info. I've got 2 years left on my commitment so I'm just starting to think about what the future lies. Not even positive that I'm going to get out.
Retirement?

HooverPilot said:
Now to find the cash for my 40%... Will TA help out there? :)
No
 

HooverPilot

CODPilot
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Steve Wilkins said:
Retirement?

Nope. I'm just coming up on all of my commitments & orders being done at the same time (rarely happens) and have started to do the take the bonus or get out thought process. I'm on a super JO tour as a transition guy and I've pretty much only been on sea duty. If I stay in I'll get 1 year on shore duty and then back to sea as a DH/OIC (if I get picked up for DH/OIC).
 
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