USERRA Act

[devodians]

I've been selected to OCS for a 11/5 class date. I'm preparing to put in notice for my job, but it seems like I may not need to. Anyone familiar with the USERRA act?
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/vets/programs/userra/USERRA-Pocket-Guide#ch2

If I'm understanding this correctly, I can ask my employer for my job back after getting out of the Navy, even after 4-5 years, and they would have to say yes. Am I misunderstanding something?

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

I've been selected to OCS for a 11/5 class date. I'm preparing to put in notice for my job, but it seems like I may not need to. Anyone familiar with the USERRA act?
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/vets/programs/userra/USERRA-Pocket-Guide#ch2

If I'm understanding this correctly, I can ask my employer for my job back after getting out of the Navy, even after 4-5 years, and they would have to say yes. Am I misunderstanding something?

USERRA is primarily intended for those going on temporary active duty orders, i.e. reserve personnel.

With that said, while your SWO obligation is 4 years min, you still owe two ship DIVO tours which may take you over five years, in which USERRA won’t apply.

Choose one or the other.

 

[Uncle Fester]

I've been selected to OCS for a 11/5 class date. I'm preparing to put in notice for my job, but it seems like I may not need to. Anyone familiar with the USERRA act?
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/vets/programs/userra/USERRA-Pocket-Guide#ch2

If I'm understanding this correctly, I can ask my employer for my job back after getting out of the Navy, even after 4-5 years, and they would have to say yes. Am I misunderstanding something?

USERRA is primarily intended to protect the employment and benefits of people involuntarily called up to active duty. Initial enlistment, including for Officer programs, typically isn’t considered protected but that has never (so far as I know) been challenged in court.

Anyway, joining the Navy while keeping one eye on your watch intending to go back to your old job is a…curious approach to take. There’s always more employers out there, and if you haven’t substantially improved and expanded your resume (and employment prospects) after five-ish years on active duty as an officer, you’ll have wasted your time.

Don’t worry about USERRA or your old job. Take advantage of the new path you’re on in your life.

 

[sevenhelmet]

I would give notice as soon as you can. It's the professional thing to do, and they'll likely respect you a lot more for telling them your plans in advance (allowing your employer to plan for your absence), rather than just not showing up one day (surprise, sucka!).

Saying "But USERRA..." isn't going to ingratiate you to anyone, and isn't the reason those laws were created.

 

[insanebikerboy]

USERRA is primarily intended to protect the employment and benefits of people involuntarily called up to active duty.

The involuntary part was how I’d always thought about it. Interestingly, right now in the Air Force (other branches too, I assume) guys are taking the 1-2 year career intermission, flying for whatever major they want, then coming back on active duty to pay back for the intermission. They are using USERRA as the protection to keep their line number.

I’ll never begrudge someone working a good deal, so good on them. I have wondered about if that’s what USERRA is actually meant to protect.

 

[Swanee]

The involuntary part was how I’d always thought about it. Interestingly, right now in the Air Force (other branches too, I assume) guys are taking the 1-2 year career intermission, flying for whatever major they want, then coming back on active duty to pay back for the intermission. They are using USERRA as the protection to keep their line number.

I’ll never begrudge someone working a good deal, so good on them. I have wondered about if that’s what USERRA is actually meant to protect.

Similar experience here. Some guys will pickup a Title 32 AGR and worry about the 5 year limit on non title 10 orders. Others jump on T10 contingency orders. We had a guy here recently retire- he had his United 10 year pin (or whatever you get for flying for them for 10 years) yet was still on probation.

It's a good career move if you can make it work. Get hired, get through consolidation, then go back to the military and watch your seniority number rise.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Similar experience here. Some guys will pickup a Title 32 AGR and worry about the 5 year limit on non title 10 orders. Others jump on T10 contingency orders. We had a guy here recently retire- he had his United 10 year pin (or whatever you get for flying for them for 10 years) yet was still on probation.

It's a good career move if you can make it work. Get hired, get through consolidation, then go back to the military and watch your seniority number rise.

Dang, that’s wild. When he goes back, makes year 10+ pay and not even off probation.

 

[villo0692]

I went to OCS about two years ago. Currently in Primary, flying the mighty T6. Anyhoo, I brought up the USERRA thingy with my employer and I am currently in military leave. I believe that USERRA’a duration is either 5 years, or end of initial obligation if I’m not mistaken. The main reason I did it even though I am 100% committed to the Navy, is in case I was to get hurt or in any case rendered unable to serve because of some medical condition, I could go back to my old job. I was working as an avionics testing engineer, good money there, just plain boring. i would suggest to go ahead and put for military leave, can’t hurt imo

 

[MIDNJAC]

To be clear, USERRA does NOT require the orders/drills/whatever to be "involuntary". That might be someone's presumption of the intent, but it is not the reality in practice. I do agree that it is designed to assist folks with reserve/guard/non-regular status in continuing to support national defense, rather than arbitrarily preserving a job for someone who decided to join active duty while at that job (i.e. take a new job). For me, in order to hit my 3710 required hours every year, I pretty much require a minimum of 5-7 days per month, plus a minimum of 2 weeks of AT orders (an annual requirement), not to mention a business rule of making an honest effort to support a training detachment per FY.....and that is just the basic minimum contribution. The needs of the active side ebb and flow, but generally speaking, they have work for you more than you have time available. I wouldn't be able to do this without USERRA, even if my particular employer honored the traditional "one weekend a month, 2 weeks a year" slogan. So it isn't "involuntary" in a technical sense, but I guess it is if you want to do your job in uniform.

 

[MGoBrew11]

I’ll never begrudge someone working a good deal, so good on them. I have wondered about if that’s what USERRA is actually meant to protect.

…definitely not what it’s meant for. But if you can swing it, hey, good for you.

I’ve seen a few Navy TAR guys do this as well but the timing has to be perfect.

 

[Uncle Fester]

The “involuntary” thing is a bit misleading, that’s true.

The purpose of USERRA is to prevent employers from punishing or retaliating or otherwise screwing over employees for meeting their military obligations. Per the law, shorter-term Reserve obligations - drills, AT, etc - are considered involuntary because you’re obliged to do them as conditions of belonging to the Reserve. Longer term gigs, like Mobs and ADSW/ADOS, it depends on the type of orders. It’s why mobilization orders include the “involuntarily recalled” phraseology, even if you put your hand up for them. Besides some funding issues, it also guarantees USERRA protections. I don’t know enough about Guard orders to offer an opinion; I just know they work different.

Anyway, in OP’s case, I’m almost certain it does not apply to initial entry into the military. As someone else said, you can always ask for military leave. I’ve known of plenty of employers who have honored USERRA, or even went beyond the requirements, in circumstances they weren’t obligated to by the letter of the law. But the point is they wouldn’t be required to approve such leave, and if they changed their mind on a promise of reemployment while you’re on AD, you wouldn’t have much of a legal leg to stand on.

If they do by chance extend you such a promise - get it in writing.

 

[einsteinboricua]

A Google search might help clear everything.

From USERRA's own website (bold parts by me):

Right to be Free From Discrimination and Retaliation​

If you:

• are a past or present member of the uniformed service;
• have applied for membership in the uniformed service; or
• are obligated to serve in the uniformed service; then an employer may not deny you:
  • initial employment;
  • reemployment;
  • retention in employment;
  • promotion; or
  • any benefit of employment because of this status. In addition, an employer may not retaliate against anyone assisting in the enforcement of USERRA rights, including testifying or making a statement in connection with a proceeding under USERRA, even if that person has no service connection.

In other words, while it's mainly oriented for Reserve personnel being called to Active Duty, it also protects civilians applying to Active Duty.

However, it only covers it for a total of 5 years. After those 5 years, your employer is free to cut you loose if you remain active duty (they don't have to, especially if your orders extend a couple of years beyond that, but by law, they must hold your spot for up to 5 years). Your employer may be willing to hold your spot for the length of your orders, provided you intend to return; if you decide to renew and stay active duty, then they can take it as a sign that you no longer wish to return with them.

 

[MIDNJAC]

…definitely not what it’s meant for. But if you can swing it, hey, good for you.

I’ve seen a few Navy TAR guys do this as well but the timing has to be perfect.

There were a few of those guys in the COVID timeframe, who came back from SELRES to FTS/TAR. Folks who hadn't done enough SELRES time to prevent them from getting to an active duty retirement while TAR. And they still have their seniority numbers.

Like you said, hard, or at least needlessly complicated, to orchestrate. But if you can, coming back to your airline with 5-7 years of seniority is probably a good way to start your "retirement"

 

[eranger24]

Does USERRA Act protect military spouses? For example, my wife would not be able to work remotely for her job if we were stationed overseas.

 

[SteveHolt!!!]

Does USERRA Act protect military spouses? For example, my wife would not be able to work remotely for her job if we were stationed overseas.

No, USERRA does not provide protection.