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USAA vs. NFCU: VA Loan, post-housing bubble Edition

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
It's just several options that Chase ran through. I'm finding out that it sounds like a good deal to 'get $3k cash back,' it ends up costing 10's of thousands over the life of the loan.

Thus this is also the problem with NFCU - they have a no frills loan policy but that ends up being rolled into their APR anyway, and over the course of an entire loan it ends up coming out to significantly more than other competitors.
 

bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
Too lazy to see if this is a repeat of somebody else's points, but make sure your math is considering the mortgage interest deduction as well as any other deductions you can add if the mortgage interest makes you new to itemized deductions.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
I did not originally, but it would only save me $150-200 on the first year of the loan over the standard deduction.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Where are you looking?
How much is it projected to appreciate next year?
How old is the house?
When was it last rehabbed?
How old are all the major systems and roof?
What's is appraised value?
What rebate is your realtor giving you?
Are your sellers paying closing?

Can't really gauge whether or not your numbers are in the ball park.

I bought a brand new place once 5% down for 320 and it was worth about 260 3years later but it didn't cost me anything more than 4K total in repairs over 11 years.

My place here I went 0 down 0 closing cost and got a rebate and its cost me 1100 in 2 years

I have a 100 year old house I bought with 30% down and its cost about 5k 3 days after closing after I paid the closing costs.

I can give you 4 more examples of different properties and different outcomes.

My point is real estate spread sheets on numbers don't universally work in a vacuum. Each specific property and sale is different.

Repairs are a tax write off, as is depreciation (which is a tax thing)
You can write off large capital gains as long as you live in the place a couple years.
You can also rent the place.

The stock market performance in the last 12 months hasn't been that great. I know all of my properties Have appreciated at a greater rate of return than my TSP account- however that hasn't always been the case.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.

All good questions. As I haven't nailed down a property yet, I can't answer many of them. But they are good to keep in mind when shopping around and considering between property A and property B.

I will say that the market is pretty stagnant around here, i.e. I don't expect the property to do better than inflation in the near-term and most likely will do worse. This is off-set by a large amount of properties on sale here so I can probably get someone to come down to below the appraised value.

Really? Deducting my mortgage interest has always saved me way more than that.
Married filing jointly the standard deduction is around $12k, the interest on my mortgage first year would be around $7k + real estate taxes of $6-7k. I suppose a creative accountant might find more stuff to write-off on an itemized tax return, but I really don't see myself finding more than $1-2k more.

I'm already only paying 6-7% of my gross earnings to income tax.
 

HH-60H

Manager
pilot
Contributor
Married filing jointly the standard deduction is around $12k, the interest on my mortgage first year would be around $7k + real estate taxes of $6-7k. I suppose a creative accountant might find more stuff to write-off on an itemized tax return, but I really don't see myself finding more than $1-2k more.

I'm already only paying 6-7% of my gross earnings to income tax.

Ok, looking back through your posts I see my mortgage was substantially larger. Your calculations make more sense to me now.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
All good questions. As I haven't nailed down a property yet, I can't answer many of them. But they are good to keep in mind when shopping around and considering between property A and property B.

I will say that the market is pretty stagnant around here, i.e. I don't expect the property to do better than inflation in the near-term and most likely will do worse. This is off-set by a large amount of properties on sale here so I can probably get someone to come down to below the appraised value.

I guess it might help to know where "here" is. Unless it's a pretty remote location, there's a fair chance some of us have first hand experience purchasing property there or know people who do.
 

Tycho_Brohe

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Done sir done! After about an hour or so of getting really good at signing my name, I finally got a key (also a house to go with it). For those who were waiting with bated breath (no one), here was my Navy Fed experience.

(For the record, this was a short-sale purchase; you work mostly with the bank that owns the mortgage, so there's a long time of waiting while the bank mulls your offer, and then they want the money immediately after they accept, but "hurry up and wait" is nothing new.)
The first person I was in touch with was very nice and easy to reach. While the seller's bank took like a month to consider my first offer, she called in every week to check on the process.
(SIDE NOTE: Not sure if I mentioned this, but Navy Fed was able to give me a "Pre-approval express," which was essentially a pre-approval without a hard credit inquiry, which is nice if you're trying to keep your credit score as high as possible. They said they could do this because I had a banking relationship with them; I had been banking with them about a year or so at this point, including a checking account and two credit cards.)
Unfortunately, she told me she was transferring to another location, so she'd be passing my loan to someone else. The new person was...hard to reach. He had two different work numbers, neither was a cell phone, and he never seemed to be at either desk, so I had to leave a message about 95% of the time I called. Super inconvenient when you spend most of your work time in a building (or plane) where you can't have your cell phone. So a record-shattering game of phone-tag ensued. He seemed very hesitant that the loan could be ready in time for the closing date we were expecting, and my realtor strongly recommended we go with one of his lenders. I gave the lender a call and told her the terms that Navy Fed was offering. She told me that she wouldn't charge me the 1% origination fee that Navy Fed was going to charge, so she could essentially match the rate by turning that into a point instead. She was very experienced with VA loans and had worked with my realtor in the past, so I decided to switch to her. She asked for the usual paperwork and was about 40 times easier to reach, whether by phone, text, or e-mail. The whole thing went a lot more smoothly after that. She sent me e-mails throughout the process outlining where we were and what we were doing at each point, kind of like SITREPs. Her CRM was on point.
To Navy Fed's credit, after I told the guy I was going another direction with the lender, he told me he might be able to waive the fee. After some mulling of my own, I declined, because I didn't want the deal to fall through just to save 2 G's. (In hindsight, that offer actually turned out to be moot, but I had no way of knowing that at the time). And I'm sure there are loan officers at Navy Fed who are very competent, and I'm not saying mine wasn't, but time was very much of the essence in this deal.
Well, to make a long story short (too late), I wound up going with a lender I hadn't even heard of before my realtor told me about them, and I wish I'd done it sooner. The lender was Guaranteed Rate, send me a PM for more info if you're interested.
 

Tycho_Brohe

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
A few notes on first-time homebuying things, in case I can teach people some handy things and save some money (you'd be surprised what people may or may not know about these things, so I'm just gonna shotgun it until I'm bored):

Mortgage interest on up to $1 million of debt (including prepaid interest points), interest on home equity loans/line of credit, property taxes (including the prorated property taxes you pay at closing), mortgage insurance premiums (not including the VA funding fee, unless I'm mistaken), and loan origination fees are tax deductible. However, these are below-the-line deductions, meaning you must itemize to claim them. The question then becomes, which will save me more money, the standard deduction or itemizing? Which demands another question, what else can I deduct if I itemize? Charitable contributions and state sales tax (or state income tax, but if you were stationed in a state without income tax like FL or TX and didn't change your residence to it, you're wrong) are the big ones, some smaller ones are medical expenses that exceed 10% of your AGI and miscellaneous unreimbursed job-related expenses that exceed 2% of your AGI. If you saw that last one and thought about writing off an iPad Pro and ForeFlight, you're wrong. But now I'm down a rabbit hole, let's go back to mortgage interest.

If you're not a finance minor, here's a rundown on how interest works, and how it affects how much you'll be able to deduct. Say my 30-year fixed mortgage at 3.5% has a starting balance of $200,000. If you throw all that shit into the Bankrate calculator, it'll show you your monthly payment broken down for all 360 payments. Running my numbers, my first month's payment includes over $600 of interest, whereas the very last payment includes like $3 of interest. So I'll pay like 6 grand in interest in the first year and less than 200 bucks in the last. So early on, the mortgage interest deduction is a huge deal. Assuming a 25% tax bracket, 8 grand in interest deductions alone saves me 2 grand. The standard deduction is like $6,300 dollars, so right off the bat for me, it's obviously better to itemize by at least $425 ([8,000-6,300]*0.25).

And then there's Homestead. No, not KHST, the Homestead exemption. In Florida, doing this paperwork reduces the taxable value of your home by up to $50,000, thereby reducing the amount you pay in property taxes.

So you can reduce property tax, you can deduct it. What's next? Straight up not paying it, if you're deployed in support of OIF, OEF, or Operation New Dawn. If you're deployed half the year, you don't owe half the tax you would have owed. Not sure if it's available outside of Florida.

Then there's something called the Mortgage Credit Certificate, which I didn't know about until about like three days ago, so it may be too late for me to use it, I'm still looking into it. But in Florida, this means that for first-time homebuyers, you get a tax credit for mortgage interest instead of a deduction. If you're not familiar with the difference, a credit is like four times better than a deduction. In fact, it's exactly four times better if you're in the 25% tax bracket. Subject to certain limits of course.

What else, what else.....OH. Save ALL your receipts on home improvement things, because they increase the cost basis in your home, thereby reducing the taxable profit when it comes time to sell your home. Improvements do not include repairs; improvements add value to your house, repairs basically get the house back to where it already was.

Moral of the story: all this shit is complicated, so do what I'm about to do and find a reputable tax preparer to run the show if your days of using the 1040EZ are over. Keep ALL the records and receipts. Shop around. And to paraphrase Ronald Reagan, trust but Google that shit.
 

hummerhole

Well-Known Member
None
So is the bottom line to stay away from USAA or NFCU? The way I see it, if the standard rate these days is somewhere around 3.5%, why not go with them?
 

SynixMan

HKG Based Artificial Excrement Pilot
pilot
Contributor
So is the bottom line to stay away from USAA or NFCU? The way I see it, if the standard rate these days is somewhere around 3.5%, why not go with them?

Origination and other fees compromise a significant chunk the upfront costs that aren't baked into the straight mortgage APR. Different banks have different fees.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
So is the bottom line to stay away from USAA or NFCU? The way I see it, if the standard rate these days is somewhere around 3.5%, why not go with them?

Not necessarily- be a smart consumer. All mortgage companies suck at different parts of the process. Find out what each company you're considering offers. And try to do a side by side comparison.

For me NFCU was a pain the ass but between their "upto $2500 towards closing costs" (at the time), their realtor kickback program and seller closing concessions I ended up getting paid $2k for moving into my house. Deals terms and promotions change all the time so go into things with an open mind and open eyes.
 

TF84

New Member
pilot
I am getting into the discussion late, but hopefully my experience can help others out. Do not, I repeat do not go with USAA for a mortgage. Complete pain in the ass. I looked at both NFCU and USAA and they had comparable rates (NFCU was slightly better but I thought it would be nice to keep the mortgage where I bank). We started the refinance process on February 7th, 2014 and did not close until October 2014. Over 200 days and we went through 3 loan processors and had to do 3 appraisals (had an FHA loan). The mortgage company is not actually part of USAA banking and is located in Illinois. Seems like USAA bought this mortgage company but they are not even close to integrated and the mortgage company does not have the customer service or online access that USAA banking has. Very disappointed. Lack of communication and basic incompetence.

I have also not had a great experience with USAA regarding an insurance claim. Again lack of communication on their part. I have been contemplating for some time to switch over to NFCU but moving everything over can be a pain and a huge disruption especially since we use the web bill pay service quite a bi plus to be honest the Banking part of USAA has been awesome. No complaints banking wise, its just the mortgage and insurance folks I have a problem with.

Best of luck to everyone. just do your research.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
I have also not had a great experience with USAA regarding an insurance claim. Again lack of communication on their part. I have been contemplating for some time to switch over to NFCU but moving everything over can be a pain and a huge disruption especially since we use the web bill pay service quite a bi plus to be honest the Banking part of USAA has been awesome. No complaints banking wise, its just the mortgage and insurance folks I have a problem with.

Best of luck to everyone. just do your research.

I have been hearing this from various people in different parts of the country, the comments are very much on par with what I have heard about getting claims done with Progressive and Geico.
 
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