TSA or T&A ???

[Recovering LSO]

This conversation will be moot in due time - as soon as another terrorist attack occurs, the sophomoric American public will pull out their American flag lapel pins, their yellow-ribbon bumper stickers, hug, cry and go to church together, hang flags from their houses, and gladly put up with airport security screening - the whole time shaking their fists asking "how did this happen?"

Security is a joke until we start aggressively profiling, BUT the same people who now complain about the pat downs and scanners complained about profiling. W T Fuck.? Like it or not, invoke the name of whatever founding father you want - there must be some sacrifice of liberties for some semblance of air security. Finding the threshold where we give too much of one for the other is the tough part. IMO we're not near that threshold yet.

 

[Python]

Security is a joke until we start aggressively profiling, BUT the same people who now complain about the pat downs and scanners complained about profiling. W T Fuck.? Like it or not, invoke the name of whatever founding father you want - there must be some sacrifice of liberties for some semblance of air security. Finding the threshold where we give too much of one for the other is the tough part. IMO we're not near that threshold yet.

I have no problem with profiling. I complain about the pat downs and scanners and have no problems with the profiling and many people I know feel the same way.
IMO we have crossed the threshold since, as phrog put it, "passengers are now being treated with less respect, dignity, and civil rights than criminals".

 

[pilot_man]

^ you know what else violates my civil liberties? getting blown the fuck up in an airplane by a shit head with explosives strapped to his taint. What's the ACLU gonna do me for then?

Then that's it. We show up to the airport, get completely naked in front of everybody, and then have some dude that should be working at BK stick some kind of probe up our asses to see if we have something we shouldn't. There is a line, and it's already being crossed.

Aggressive profiling is the way to go. Use some damn common sense. Stop trying to fight our enemies like gentleman. That worked real well for the British a few hundred years ago. Political correctness is out. Common sense is in.

 

[Pariel]

Why is profiling the answer? Our enemies will continue to use people who appear not to be Muslim to launch attacks on us.

The reality is that as "hard" as the TSA supposedly is (and given the TSA employees I've interacted with, I seriously doubt that), attacks can and will be launched from outside our country. Treating every American as a terrorist gives them exactly what they want.

In response to whomever posted the blog on TSA agents responses: you choose who you work for. You accept what your job entails. Perhaps, given the people working at TSA and the need to put the food on the table, they have no choice but to continue working. There is, however, a union and a standard of decency. If the TSA employees are so fed up with it, they have the ability to resist.

 

[Flash]

......Near as I can tell, none of the TSA's policies have been all that successful - since terrorists still made it through security (shoe bomber, underwear bomber) and it was the passengers that are now being treated with less respect, dignity, and civil rights than criminals - that stopped it.

TSA could not have stopped either of them because both got on international flights that departed outside of the US. Blame it on the French and the damn Dutch.

 

[HeloBubba]

Why is profiling the answer? Our enemies will continue to use people who appear not to be Muslim to launch attacks on us.

This assumes profiling for the sake of securing air travel relies solely on race. Profiling goes deeper than that. It takes into account other things in addition to race. Like say, nationality/citizenship. Or how your travel is structured (one way vice round-trip), did you check a bag, etc..

In May of 2002, I helped my brother-in-law drive his Dad's car from Southern California to El Paso, Texas. His Dad having been recently relocated. His Dad bought us one-way airplane tickets to get back home. BOTH of us got pulled out of the line for additional screening (wanded and carry-on fully searched) because we had no checked bags and were flying one-way. Both of us are about as gringo-looking as they come. We were both "profiled" and didn't mind one bit.

I don't think I'd have a problem going through the back-scatter x-ray machine if it wasn't such an incredible health risk. So the choice comes down to X-Ray of Death or Sexual Assault.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Why is profiling the answer? Our enemies will continue to use people who appear not to be Muslim to launch attacks on us.

Profiling is a political word made up to help a politician look good. It's not based off of looks, if that were the case I should be pulled aside because I look like I may be part of the IRA. "Profiling" is like what HeloBubba said, it's a multiple tiered background search in how the person got to where they are and then human interaction with them when they get to the airport.

 

[Alpha_Echo_606]

TSA could not have stopped either of them because both got on international flights that departed outside of the US. Blame it on the French and the damn Dutch.

So I again ask, have there been any attacks since 9/11 that started on American soil and not from an inbound international flight? Maybe we should send the TSA agents overseas and start screening there with the pat-downs.

 

[eddie]

I don't think I'd have a problem going through the back-scatter x-ray machine if it wasn't such an incredible health risk.

Is it really though? I have some trouble believing it is really a problem at all, but I don't know any of the specifics of these machines and I've long since forgotten the particulars of back-scatter detection in general.

I stood in one before this all became a big deal, so joke's on me I guess...

 

[PerDiem]

Here's an idea. Show up to security in boxers, a tshirt and flip flops. Makes for a less intrusive and faster search. Bring additional change of clothes in your carry-on to wear on our flight if you so desire.

 

[phrogdriver]

I don't think I'd have a problem going through the back-scatter x-ray machine if it wasn't such an incredible health risk. So the choice comes down to X-Ray of Death or Sexual Assault.

"Incredible" health risk? You're getting more radiation exposure from the cosmic rays hitting you at altitude in the airliner than you are in one of the scanners. The health risk angle is a smokescreen put up by the anti-scanner folks.

 

[OUSOONER]

All of the answers to our problems can be found here.

 

[coolhandlukesd]

Big sis wants to implement scanners on boats, trains, court houses, metros, and just about anything that could be a soft target.


http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...scanners-could-be-trains-boats-and-the-metro-


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101124/ap_on_re_us/us_courthouse_scanners

 

[scoolbubba]

And people wonder why I'm fired up over this. One of the most basic rights in a free state is the ability to travel unrestricted and unmolested throughout the country. People depend on buses, trains, boats, and yes...even AIRPLANES to get on with their day to day, non-terroristic lives. The idea that the TSA has some mandate to restrict any and all forms of transit (which is what they do when you do not submit) is the second worst violation of our rights as law abiding citizens, behind the Patriot act.

The odds of being killed in a terrorist plot are about as good as the odds of getting hit by lightning, yet we don't walk around in lightning repellent suits 24/7, because it's foolish, and because lightning repellent suits have not yet been invented by the DHS or required by the TSA.

 

[C420sailor]

And people wonder why I'm fired up over this. One of the most basic rights in a free state is the ability to travel unrestricted and unmolested throughout the country. People depend on buses, trains, boats, and yes...even AIRPLANES to get on with their day to day, non-terroristic lives. The idea that the TSA has some mandate to restrict any and all forms of transit (which is what they do when you do not submit) is the second worst violation of our rights as law abiding citizens, behind the Patriot act.

The odds of being killed in a terrorist plot are about as good as the odds of getting hit by lightning, yet we don't walk around in lightning repellent suits 24/7, because it's foolish, and because lightning repellent suits have not yet been invented by the DHS or required by the TSA.

Just curious, but how would your opinion change if airlines had their own private security that was doing this?