Transitioning from one aircraft community to another during career

[BACONATOR]

Its one thing to say its happened. (damn near everything under the sun has happened at one time or another) I was wondering more along the lines of is it done. (like 2 out of the last 5 strike transitions were helo guys, vice "yea we had someone do it back in '94). And if I remember correctly MB put in for tacair and E2/C2. They gave him E2/C2. So is it an extremely rare thing or more along the lines of "its done but not all that common"?

Well transitions are pretty rare in and of themselves (check the board results yourself) so it's hard to say if helos to jets is any harder. I doubt the difference is really significant. A transition is a transition (for the most part) so if a P-3 guy or a helo guy goes to jets is probably not AS significant to the boards, as say... if he's a hard worker and good performer. But then again, I don't actually know anything, so there's THAT.....

 

[vick]

Well I switched aircraft (AV-8 to U-2) and services. Even without an interservice transfer you'll encounter all sorts of opportunities in your career that you can't anticipate now. Multiple platforms in the logbook does seem far more common in the AF, but there are some guys in the Navy & MC with colorful pasts as well. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned exchange tours, that's another way to broaden your horizons.

It's worth mentioning that we've got a bunch of former chopper guys in the U-2 gig. Their route typically consisted of fleet tour, trench time in the VTs to build fixed-wing time, then apply to the U-2. The interview flights do a pretty good job of figuring out which ones actually did have jet grades.

 

[xmid]

Well transitions are pretty rare in and of themselves (check the board results yourself) so it's hard to say if helos to jets is any harder. I doubt the difference is really significant. A transition is a transition (for the most part) so if a P-3 guy or a helo guy goes to jets is probably not AS significant to the boards, as say... if he's a hard worker and good performer. But then again, I don't actually know anything, so there's THAT.....

I guess that was what I was getting at and I just wasn't wording that well (its been a long day and yueng and ling are chillin' in front of the TV/PC with me). I know transitions are rare. I'm basically wondering if the boards would view other fixed wing guys as better transitions to TACAIR than helo's because of the vastly different flight regimes and very different skill set. Being a wannabe helo bubba I figured P-3/E-6/S-3 guys would be favored for a TACAIR transition because of the similarities in fixed wing flying and the difference in 120 knots to 5-600 knots being significant hurdles for the helo guys.

 

[BACONATOR]

I guess that was what I was getting at and I just wasn't wording that well (its been a long day and yueng and ling are chillin' in front of the TV/PC with me). I know transitions are rare. I'm basically wondering if the boards would view other fixed wing guys as better transitions to TACAIR than helo's because of the vastly different flight regimes and very different skill set. Being a wannabe helo bubba I figured P-3/E-6/S-3 guys would be favored for a TACAIR transition because of the similarities in fixed wing flying and the difference in 120 knots to 5-600 knots being significant hurdles for the helo guys.

Well speaking with a Sim instructor here at the RAG, when he did a tour flying C-12s, he said that his time there flying with a variety of guys, including jet guys, he found that they taught him a lot about flying and he taught them a lot as well. While they were much more knowledgeable about instrument flying and were used to things happening faster at faster airspeeds, he said he found his scan was a lot faster than theirs and some other things I can't recall.

Who knows if they view fixed wing pilots more for jet transitions. I don't think anyone beyond the boards themselves could answer that with a great deal of certainty. I would like to think that if you perform well in your community then you'd be viewed regardless of platform. After all, Naval Aviators are all held to some basic standard and after a fleet tour, even a lowly helo bubba could probably hack it in jet-land.

FTR: I am very aware that the past couple posts of mine have really just been the "blind leading the blind", but meh...

 

[gonad]

So when I went to MEPS to get my physical, I got into a conversation with a retired AF pilot. He told me that during his time as an aviator, he flew three different planes--started in the C-130, moved to F-15's, and ended in a B-52. I started wondering if that kind of switch is fairly common, or if this guy is just an exception. It doesn't strike me as particularly efficient of the military to switch pilots between pipelines like that. Any ideas?

Since the dude you talked to was retired there's a good chance he did all of his training in the -37/-38 ....the AF split pipeline with the T-38 / T-1/T-44 is a relatively new thing... So older heavy guys could keep currency in the T-38 back in the day...the transition was easier then.

 

[puck_11]

It's fairly common in the AF to go to a different airframe, although it might be from an F-16, to an A-10, not typically another platform.

As far as transitions go, we have quite a few E-2 guys in the Prowler RAG, along with a bunch of S-3 guys (since their airplane went away). We even have a P3 guy. So yeah transitions happen, but expect to work your ass off to get the transition, and then work your ass off once you hit the fleet again because you're behind you're YG since your time to retrain is all NOB.

 

[phrogdriver]

As with anything weird, transitions happen. They aren't something to count on, so don't base any decisions with the idea that someday you'd like to be all-world, jack-of-all-trades. There are opportunites to fly different things over a career. I know a guy (yes, anecdotal evidence) who was a CH-46E guy, went to VMR-1 at Cherry Point where he got to fly UC-35s, C-12s, and CH-46Ds, then did the V-22 transition. So, you can fly different things, but not necessarily several different FLEET aircraft.

In the Marine Corps at least, the transition message actually says, "Rotary Wing to Tacair" and "Rotary wing to C-130." No one ever goes C-130 to anything else--they're too happy living in hotels and getting per diem, which is a pitch for that community right there. The Marine Corps transition order also specifies only one transition per career, though that is waiverable. Just one more hurdle.

The Corps has also been soliciting conversions within the r/w community. They've been asking for guys to convert to UH, AH, and CH-53, as they've stood up more of those squadrons.

It's not like the old days, though, when switching aircraft was almost as easy as convincing someone to take you out for a checkflight. There are formal processes.

 

[Flash]

It's fairly common in the AF to go to a different airframe, although it might be from an F-16, to an A-10, not typically another platform.

I am pretty certain that in the USAF it is often expected that you do a tour in a plane other than your original one, I believe that includes an AETC tour thought I think it includes UAV's now too. With their primary focus on flying, it is much more common there.

There are an X number of transitions a year...each community allows for a certain number to leave and enter.

You are somewhat right, there is no set number but the community you leave and the one that takes you both have to agree to it. So if your original community is undermanned or the one you are trying to go to is overmanned, you are probably SOL. The number of guys who transitioned varied when I did it, it was about 10-25 guys every 6 months.

Its one thing to say its happened.......I was wondering more along the lines of is it done.......So is it an extremely rare thing or more along the lines of "its done but not all that common"?

Up until the S-3 transtions kicked into high gear about 2002-03 timeframe they held a transition board every 6 months in the Navy, they suspended it for a little while, I don't think they have stopped the Marine one to my knowledge in a while. They have started the boards back up but have nothing concrete on how often, though from some of the posts here it seems to still occur with some regularity. There is an instruction governing the process on the books so it does happen. And it is not limited to just E-2/C-2, helos or whatever, all platforms are on the table and people do get them all. They published the board results on the NPC website when I did it and all plateforms were represented (though no one transitioned to helos, they were were just away them).

A VP NFO would have to go back through the TRACOM TACAIR pipeline if he transitioned to TACAIR, just as a pilot would.

That was exactly what I had to do, I went all the way through VT-86 to learn the TACAIR way of doing things. It was a completely different job from the one I had done before, which was sitting sideways in a tube staring at a computer screen. Being a 'co-pilot' was challenging and new but a whole lot more fun, as well as being a hell of a lot more hard.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I know a guy (yes, anecdotal evidence) who was a CH-46E guy, went to VMR-1 at Cherry Point where he got to fly UC-35s, C-12s, and CH-46Ds, then did the V-22 transition.

Sounds like Lobsta...

 

[phrogdriver]

Yes, it does...

 

[phrogpilot73]

Yes, it does...

He in your squadron?

Another way to get a ton of aircraft in your logbook is via TPS. My first CO was a developmental test pilot for the Osprey, he had everything from Mi-8's to T-2's to the mighty Battle Phrog in his logbook.

 

[beaverslayer]

Since the dude you talked to was retired there's a good chance he did all of his training in the -37/-38 ....the AF split pipeline with the T-38 / T-1/T-44 is a relatively new thing... So older heavy guys could keep currency in the T-38 back in the day...the transition was easier then.

Yeah that makes sense. This guy looked to be about 90 years old, so it must have just been way back in the day when those transitions were way easier. It just struck me as interesting the variety of planes that he ended up in.

 

[scoolbubba]

It's almost a given now. The AF has a bunch of "little" side jobs that go to first tour guys that for us would be a shore tour type deal...station pilot type gigs.

I have a buddy who is flying C-21s out of Germany for 3 years, and will be transitioning to C-17s or C-5s when he's done. Other guys from advanced ended up in MC-12s and are headed for C-130s or C-27s when they're finished with that. They have different career wickets to hit that don't penalize them for being in more than one community as a junior guy all over again.

 

[jg5343]

Thanks for all the replies, they have been truly helpful. It seems like a fairly simple process, most of which is out of my hands save my performance here and what I can get the skipper to write.

Any way to find out which communities are looking for people right now?

 

[MasterBates]

VAW/VRC is short in the 01-03 YGs last I saw. I don't know HOW short.

I have seen VFA taking 01-02 YGs, nobody junior to that of my knowledge. Not sure what it means, but I know a couple guys who were VAQ transitions, and they got switched to VFA while in K-rock.

HSL is probably short, the greatest exodous I saw was guys out of there (numerically, it's also a large community) as is VP (most transitions I saw were HSL or VP/VQ, followed by VAW going VFA/Q) but I don't know what the actual manning is.

Basically, your package goes to the board. They decide if you are a good candidate to transition. Then they see if your losing community can "afford it". Then they look at your #1 choice, and if they have room for you, you go there. If not, then #2.

Basically mine worked out that I was approved on all 3 boards, HSL was able to lose me, but the first 2 boards, no room in the gaining community due to VS sundowners having #1 priority. Third try, VFA was still full of S3 dudes, but VAW/VRC was open. Board told me I could probably get VFA on the next board just due to the way the S3 sundown was working, or I could take the "sure thing" E2/C2 spot.

Also, as a note, if you try to transition directly to VRC, no deal. For detailing and manning purposes they are considered part of the VAW community, and it's up to luck and fate what you get at the RAG. You pays your money and yous takes your chances.