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The Tomcat Legacy; 35+ years from Fleet Air Defender to Recce to Precision Strike

MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
The F-111B was the Navy half of the TFX program (Tactical Fighter Experimental), designed to fill the role that the Tomcat eventually did. It was a MacNamara idea, and from what I have read it was vastly over budget and well overweight by the time this picture was taken:
F-111B_CVA-43_approach_July1968.jpg
 

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
As far as the first question, Admiral Zumwalt'sautobiography On Watch goes into extensive detail about the development of the F-14. The SECDEF originally wanted the Navy and the AF to use the same plane (F-111), but couldn't get the Navy to sign off on it due to carrier suitability issues. The Navy went with the F-14 design program using an inferior radar and engine set up to that of the F-111 (supposedly to cut costs of design), later causing extensive upgrades to create the F-14D models (which use similar engines and radar as the F-111 I think).

Dunno about #2, but I suppose any new aircraft would have some carrier suitability issues at the beginning of testing (think T-45).
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Quick two questions about the F-14:

I know someone that was flapping his gums on about the Tomcat (although not a pilot), and I wanted to verify the validity or stupidity of his statements before I attempt to cram his nadz into his piehole (the guy is an obnoxious know-it-all):

1) Was the F-14 developed in response to the Navy not being able to use the F-111? From my "research" on the Net, some components were aided in development by the Advark, but the Navy's choice was not influenced.

2) Was the F-14 difficult to land on the carrier?

Thanks from a helo bubba (when I told said turd that I used to fly helos in the Navy, he said "well, those are ALOT easier to land on the carrier" True dat', but I want to pound the guy into the dirt.

Thanks.

False. At least according to our resident Fixed/Rotary Naval Aviator MasterBates.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
False. At least according to our resident Fixed/Rotary Naval Aviator MasterBates.

Actually he was referring to approaching to land and landing on a small boy, not a carrier. As a helo guy, if you can't land on a carrier, you need to turn in your wings.
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
Yep. I still rank small boy in normal seas harder than a jet during the day.

I'm going to the boat in the E-2 in a month, and will give you some feedback on the Night CV vs Night FFG.

I'm going to throw a guess based on my whopping 30 hours in the Hummer and go the E-2 day vs SH60B day (small boy) are probably going to be close. This thing's a bit more of a bitch to handle in the landing pattern than the T-45.
 

RHPF

Active Member
pilot
Contributor
One of the sim building F-14 guys (or maybe he was some other pointy nose instructor) was just talking about #2 about 2 weeks ago. I am missing parts of the statement, but perhaps a classmate can fill it in. Something to the effect of "the F-14 was really hard to land on the boat, then they developed the xxxxx system, which they debated not adding due to the cost/pending possible retirement. They eventually added it, allowing the Tomcat guys to get a chance at getting Top Hook since it was so hard to bring aboard." There are guys on here who can provide much more useful info than this, but until they chime in that's all I can offer.
 

FlyingOnFumes

Nobel WAR Prize Aspirant
Quick two questions about the F-14:

I know someone that was flapping his gums on about the Tomcat (although not a pilot), and I wanted to verify the validity or stupidity of his statements before I attempt to cram his nadz into his piehole (the guy is an obnoxious know-it-all):

1) Was the F-14 developed in response to the Navy not being able to use the F-111? From my "research" on the Net, some components were aided in development by the Advark, but the Navy's choice was not influenced.

2) Was the F-14 difficult to land on the carrier?

Thanks from a helo bubba (when I told said turd that I used to fly helos in the Navy, he said "well, those are ALOT easier to land on the carrier" True dat', but I want to pound the guy into the dirt.

Thanks.

HIGHLY recommend the book Tomcat! by RADM Paul T. Gillcrist. He addresses both questions. From what I understand, the physically transplanted items were the AN/AWG-9 radar + AIM-54 Phoenix weapons system as well as the Pratt & "Quitney" (Whitney) TF-30 afterburning turbofan engines. It's been a while since i read up on this, but Grumman was teamed up with General Dynamics for F-111B because of GD's lack of experience with carrier aircraft (kind of like how Northrop was teamed up with McDonnell Douglas, which had a history of carrier aircraft design experience, for the conversion of the YF-17 Cobra to the F/A-18)... so that probably helped with creation of F-14.

There is a paper written by the late creator / chief engineer of the F-14 (Bob Kress... he passed away last year) for the AIAA Evolution of Wing Design conference at Wright-Patterson AFB in 1980 titled "Variable Sweep Wing Design" that gives a very detailed account as well of the evolution from the Bell X-9 variable geometry, through F-111B to F-14.

Here is another resource: www.anft.net/f-14/f14-history-f14a.htm if you haven't already seen it.

I do remember reading offhand something about "high pitch oscillation" behind the boat...? Another thing you could read up on is the DFCS (Digital Flight Control System) upgrade... RHFP, is that the control system upgrade you're talking about?

Any actual Turkey drivers, feel free to shut me up on this...
 

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Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Quick two questions about the F-14:

1) Was the F-14 developed in response to the Navy not being able to use the F-111? From my "research" on the Net, some components were aided in development by the Advark, but the Navy's choice was not influenced.
Yes and no. Actually, the F-14 was developed because of an advanced weapon system developed well before the F-111 or the F-14.

In the 1950s, the Navy determined that it needed an interceptor that could deliver multiple shots against multiple long-range Soviet targets carrying cruise missiles against the fleet. The radar and weapon system that could do that was developed well before the F-14 was ever designed. It was a weapon system looking for a platform.

The first iteration was the Douglas F6D "Missileer" with the two-stage "Eagle Missile" (which never went into production)

The later TFX program led to the F-111 that proved impossible for the Navy. Grumman then in competition developed a "VFX" which provided a carrier suitable platform complete with the "track-while-scan/multi-shot demanded Phoenix missile system and the advanced AWG-9 radar ......that had long been looking for a home to counter the Soviet bomber/cruise missile threat.



2) Was the F-14 difficult to land on the carrier?

No. Having a 20kt. slower approach speed than an F-4, having a HUD, having DLC, having needles, great auto-throttles, etc. the F-14 was far easier than an F-4 coming aboard - especially at night!!!!!

However, it did have some drawbacks.

1. The F-14 had a fan rather than a pure turbojet engine like the F-4. Therefore, power response was a little bit slower.

2. It had spoilers rather than ailerons. This meant that it tended to rotate about the wingtips' axis, rather the fuselage axis. Thus it wallowed in adverse yaw coming aboard. Not a big deal, except for some of those observing cretins in #3 below.

3. The F-14 with its flapping spoilers and spastic, flapping differential horizontal stabilizers really looked ugly and uncontrolled on approach compared to other airwing aircraft... indeed it looked like a 'turkey' flying and attempting to land! Thus, a guy could fly a "rails OK pass" at the boat, but LSOs seeing the F-14s' wild flapping flight controls would grade the pass only a "fair". Those Communists! ;)

Bottom line: The F-14 was easy to bring aboard (but not nearly as easy as the F-18); but it looked bad and got undeserved, bad landing grades.... until the fleet LSOs finally calibrated their blind eyes and recognized a superb approach when they saw one.

************************************************************

PS: You wouldn't ever catch me trying to land a helo (I've got 30 hours of fun time in a CH-53 – daytime on land.) on the pitching mini-deck of a small boy, ever! Please tell me helo guys don't do that stuff at night?!!? :eek:
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
....
2. It had spoilers rather than ailerons. This meant that it tended to rotate about the wingtips' axis, rather the fuselage axis. ..... Not a big deal, except for some of those observing cretins in #3 below..... Those Communists! ;)
In other words -- welcome to the wonderful world of Intruders .... :)
 

Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
In other words -- welcome to the wonderful world of Intruders .... :)
Thanks. But I really preferred Old Smokey.... even though those old hook-nose 'Truders usually got the Golden Hook award.
(Communist LSO plots! :icon_rage) ;) :)
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Last Tomcat Tango (with a tanker)

Was just checking out Baseops (more respectable than SailorBob) in researching USAF transitioning so many pilots into UAV operators and tripped on this gem

Hit it, RIP!
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Truly a masterpiece.

I was at Fallon recentky when RIP graduated from TOPGUN and he was larger than life, but I'm pretty sure he did not pursue the singing career. His dad was also a Tomcat pilot (as well as an uncle) and commanded VF-31 back in 1992 when they got their first F-14Ds. RIP was last Tomcat pilot to join VF-31 in 2005 before they went on last deployment with the F-14D.

Apparently, someone on Baseops ran down who the sultry voiced Boom Operator was and even managed to post an image of her (that was subsequently pulled).
 
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