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The SHOW: Airlines still a "good gig"??

sevenhelmet

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
nittany03 said:
‘Is This Hell?’ The Pilot Accused of Trying to Crash a Plane Tells His Story.

Just goes to show that you can make up whatever standards you want, but if people feel compelled to hide shit, they aren’t the actual standards you’re going to get.
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Yep, the FAA is absolutely part of the mental health stigmatization problem, but what happened on that flight was not the fault of FAA policy, however poorly conceived. Individuals can and should still own their actions.

Can’t say I’ve ever had a dream where I intentionally crashed an aircraft. Of course, I’ve never been high on mushrooms, either.
 
nittany03

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
sevenhelmet said:
Yep, the FAA is absolutely part of the mental health stigmatization problem, but what happened on that flight was not the fault of FAA policy, however poorly conceived. Individuals can and should still own their actions.

Can’t say I’ve ever had a dream where I intentionally crashed an aircraft. Of course, I’ve never been high on mushrooms, either.
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I'm not saying it needs to be FAA policy that we allow people into the cockpit while tripping balls, or even allow aircrew to do shrooms in the first place. But while this guy is responsible for his poor choices on that front, there's also arguably a chain of events that led to him holding issues in until they got that bad, and that's where we need to look for holes in the proverbial Swiss cheese.
 
FLGUY

FLGUY

“Technique only”
pilot
Contributor
nittany03 said:
I'm not saying it needs to be FAA policy that we allow people into the cockpit while tripping balls, or even allow aircrew to do shrooms in the first place. But while this guy is responsible for his poor choices on that front, there's also arguably a chain of events that led to him holding issues in until they got that bad, and that's where we need to look for holes in the proverbial Swiss cheese.
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If we can assume that the man is truthful about his transparency and the reasons for his actions, I feel sympathy for him. I also think he should face every punishment that he deserves.

From a legal perspective, isn’t the consensus that a person who’s mental state is altered by voluntarily consuming a drug doesn’t get to use said substance as an excuse, or does that get factored into charges in any way? Just curious as to the legal precedence.
 
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nittany03

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Probably depends on whether or not intent is part of the things you have to prove in order to prove a crime was committed. Some things are crimes regardless of whether you intended to commit them, but others require you intentionally or knowingly do a thing. Like you can't unintentionally perjure yourself, because perjury involves deliberately lying, not being mistaken. Or murder usually requires degrees of intent, otherwise it's usually some kind of manslaughter.

Also, it's "precedent," not "precedence." Precedence is for receiving lines or lineal numbers.
 
M

Mirage

Well-Known Member
pilot
Call me a softy, but I feel sorry for the guy and hope he gets off with a slap on the wrist. Him losing his career is punishment enough for his poor decision to take shrooms, and he clearly wasn't trying to actually hurt anyone. Seems like a perfect example of why leniency exists in our legal system.

We've got to get a HIMS style program for depression.
 
sevenhelmet

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
Mirage said:
Call me a softy, but I feel sorry for the guy and hope he gets off with a slap on the wrist. Him losing his career is punishment enough for his poor decision to take shrooms, and he clearly wasn't trying to actually hurt anyone. Seems like a perfect example of why leniency exists in our legal system.
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I don’t think jail time is just punishment, but I do think he should not be permitted to touch an airplane professionally ever again. I also hope he is getting the help he needs.

Not sure I agree with the “clearly not trying to hurt anyone”. That argument doesn’t work for DUIs. Legally speaking, could the decision to enter the cockpit- even as a jump seater- while under the influence of a drug and dangerously fatigued constitute some kind of intent?


Mirage said:
We've got to get a HIMS style program for depression.
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Totally agree with this. It’s always better to catch things early. Do airlines have EAPs and hotlines people can call to talk things out?
 
M

Mirage

Well-Known Member
pilot
sevenhelmet said:
I don’t think jail time is just punishment, but I do think he should not be permitted to touch an airplane professionally ever again. I also hope he is getting the help he needs.

Not sure I agree with the “clearly not trying to hurt anyone”. That argument doesn’t work for DUIs. Legally speaking, could the decision to enter the cockpit- even as a jump seater- while under the influence of a drug and dangerously fatigued constitute some kind of intent?



Totally agree with this. It’s always better to catch things early. Do airlines have EAPs and hotlines people can call to talk things out?
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DUI is a completely different thing and, IMO, not at all a worthy comparison. Unlike DUI, he wasn't operating the flight in any way. Sure, technically he was a "crew member", but to ride a jumpseat you don't even have to be a pilot, let alone have a type rating in that plane. There are no fatigued rules that apply, you don't have to sign saying you are safe to operate, etc. Wonder if any of that will change in the aftermath of this..

If he had fought them and really tried to bring the plane down then I'd feel completely differently.
 
MIDNJAC

MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
I think there is a near 0 chance he will ever operate an airplane again, let alone a part 121 aircraft. I say "near" zero, because there was that CA of the NWA plane in the 80's who flew drunk, got arrested with the rest of his crew (who also participated/were drunk) somewhere in the midwest after the flight, did whatever version of HIMS existed back then, re-earned his certs from scratch, got rehired, and eventually upgraded to NWA 747 CA shortly before mandatory retirement. He had been a Marine A-4 pilot previously IIRC. And based on what happened to him, what he did to make good on his mistakes, I think it was justified. But he is probably a really big outlier, who flew in a different era to boot. Don't see something like that happening today.
 
mad dog

mad dog

the 🪨 🗒️ ✂️ champion
pilot
Contributor
mad dog said:
One thing that is often forgotten regarding the airlines is the fact that you’ll have the opportunity to amass a fantabulous motel/hotel pen collection from the layovers. Pictured below is just a small sampling of my collection…I probably have over 15,000 motel/hotel pens which were all given to me by motel/hotel employees. When I retire from the airlines in about 6 years, I’ll sell my fantabulous motel/hotel pen collection on eBay for $500,000.

View attachment 37320
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Probably the most bestest motel/hotel pen I’ve ever seen…at the JFK Hyatt…got to the room, saw it, and immediately had to take a pic of it…

IMG_2141.jpeg

LATE ENTRY: Even though I don’t have an A&P, I had to check out the componentry…pretty freaking fantabulous…

IMG_2142.jpeg
 
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A

alwyn2nd

Registered User
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